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[Music]

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and good afternoon from Philadelphia

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Frank here James here from Westchester

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New York and here we are with UFO News

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Network Sunday on a Sunday today we

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almost got this going on time but we got

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a little bit backed up and nine after

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4:00 that's not too bad 9 minutes late

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and we're ready to go James why don't

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you bring in our special guest for today

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absolutely it's our pleasure and honor

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to have on dr. Diana Walsh pisanka

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University of North Carolina Wilmington

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and the chair of the department of

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philosophy and religion she's the author

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of American cosmic UFOs religion and

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technology and she has quite an amazing

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story

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some people on the show listening might

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be familiar with her for visiting an

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infamous UFO crash site and talking

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about a group called Fight Club aka the

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invisible college so welcome to the show

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Diana thank you so much I'm so happy to

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be here so I just wanted to get this out

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of the way quick before we got into the

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deeper things you know a lot of people

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are going to notice that recently you

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kind of you disappeared off social media

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do you want to you want to just talk

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about that real quick yeah sure

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okay so so going into writing the book

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I've people in the book called the

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Invisibles and they're anonymous they

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have pseudonyms and you know I've I've

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been writing this book for a long time

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and I went through various stages of

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knowing that it's not a typical academic

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book I am an academic and the only kinds

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of things I've ever published for

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academic things and so I'd never had

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people whose identities I had to keep

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secret and so various times I said you

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know I'm writing this book and they're

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like yeah we know that and so as I got

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more into the book and the research what

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happened was I had there was an exchange

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of rules and so there's a lot of rules

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right The Fight Club rule and then the

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rule for academics is

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you basically talk about what you study

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and so with this type of study I

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realized that I couldn't talk about

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everything so I did have two Facebook

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pages and I wasn't on Twitter and so my

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one Facebook page was doing really well

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and I had all kinds of people on it like

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you ufologists academics you know my

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aunt and uncle my cousin you know stuff

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like that and you know and so at one

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point I thought you know what I'm I'm

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gonna have to cut this down I'm gonna

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have to stop this one so what I'm gonna

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do is stop this one and and keep my

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other one where I have friends and

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family because it's a lot of stuffs

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happening with the book and it's going

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through an editing process and and I

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can't say too much about what I'm doing

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so I could I stopped that Facebook page

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and then what happened was all that

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ufologist found me at the other friends

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and family Facebook page and you know

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what I consider them my friends and

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family too so I added them in and then

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that got you know that started getting

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also kind of like out of control you

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know my Dean is on there and he's seen

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me talking about you know UFOs and stuff

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like that and I'm thinking ok again you

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know what am I gonna do about this and

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and then once the book came out and it's

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actually not oh I mean the Kindle

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version is out but it's been taking a

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long time I guess what happened was that

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pre-sales sold out or or they didn't

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have enough copies the warehouse didn't

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so so the date book kept changing and so

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I was you know I wasn't a community of

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where I knew I was gonna have to get off

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social media I didn't know when it was

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and I you know I warned people on social

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media I said I'm gonna have to get off

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some up to some point then and stay on

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for a couple months and I don't think

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anybody actually believed me but after

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the Kindle version came out it was then

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time for me to go off of social media

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but what I think is really interesting

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is this this is the takeaway I got from

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it the book is really about a certain

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group of people call it what who I call

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the Invisibles and the Invisibles are

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people who are not on social media yet

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they create technologies that

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impact our everyday lives so when I got

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off social media people were like whoa

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she doesn't even exist anymore is she

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even alive you know this is it because

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you can't Google a lot of these people

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who do this thing you know who make real

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changes in our lives like you know in

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your heads that we know that you know

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say Zuckerberg or people like that you

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know these people we know they're on

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social media we could google them and

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all that kind of stuff you know I'm a

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college professor so my students are 20

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and you know I'll tell them about

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somebody who's really really cool and

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they'll say what's that person's name

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I'm gonna Google them and I say yo yeah

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you're not gonna find that person and

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they look at me like I'm crazy like I've

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said something that how can you they

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don't even compute what that means so

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there are people that exist that are

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making our infrastructure that we don't

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know exist because we cannot Google them

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all right so me being off social media

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kind of showed that to me I was like wow

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I still exist my book is out there but

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yeah I did have to get off social media

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I'll go back on at some point it will

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probably be something that my press

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manages I don't know I mean seriously a

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book about UFOs and religion it's not

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just like UFOs but it's also religion it

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causes a lot of controversy so so that's

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the deal about that they're really quick

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how did you get into all this in the

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first place I mean yeah how does a

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professor of Religious Studies at the

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University of North Carolina end up down

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the rabbit hole how did that happen yeah

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so if you look at my record of

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publication you'll see that I've written

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a lot I mean seriously

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I've never written a book that yeah this

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was originally an academic book and

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somehow it made it boom mainstream not

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intentionally but what happened was that

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I was with a colleague and I had written

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this book about I'm you know my

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specialty is Catholic history and so I

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had written this book about this

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doctrine of called purgatory which is

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about souls who you aren't good enough

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to get into heaven and you know as a

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Catholic doctrine and Catholics

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practiced it for thousands of work

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1800 years and stop practicing

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practicing it after the 1960s and I

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wanted to know why so I spent a good

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portion of my life don't figure that out

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and that was about 10 years of research

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and during that time I looked at a lot

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of archives

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and archival anecdotes reports

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chronicles of Catholics from 1200 1400

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on up to the present time and a way I

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found was a lot of aerial phenomena and

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a lot of beings of light and really

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strange you know scenarios of people

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encountering these beings and I kept a

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list of these and they didn't only one

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of these made it into my purgatory book

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but I shared it after I wrote the book I

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shared it with a colleague because I

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wanted to do something with this but I

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wasn't quite sure what to do and he said

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oh hey by the way this looks like Steven

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Spielberg films you know like UFOs and I

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looked at him because at that point UFOs

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was about the first I hadn't even seen

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Close Encounters of this that are kind

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and you know I I just wasn't a UFO type

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of person and I thought it was crazy and

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then of course coincidentally a UFO

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conference pops up the next week and

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Chris Bledsoe is there and so I go and I

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listen to Chris Bledsoe and I hear what

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looks to be like my you know this list

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I'm keeping and so I start looking so

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that's really how it started it started

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by connecting the historical record with

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the present record of UFO sightings and

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that's basically how I met Jacques la

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Sol Jacques de l'Est I started to read

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passport to Magana and it looked very

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similar to my own

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purgatory book so I I looked up his

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address on his website he has a p.o box

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and I wrote him a letter an

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old-fashioned letter and I sent it to

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him and I said you know I'm really

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fascinated by your work I you know I

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grew up in California and I have a lot

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of friends who still lived there

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actually my family lives there and could

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I come and and so talk to you have

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coffee or something so he actually

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invited me to his house to meet his wife

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and they had you know dinner and

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everything and so that's how it all

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started from there and then I slowly

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started to meet people in the community

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and my mind was blown on many occasions

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there

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sometimes when I wanted to depart from

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him from the research because it was

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just so strange and not what typically

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when an academic does or gets involved

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in let alone a mom of five kids right so

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so the whole thing was really bizarre

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all right did you approach Bledsoe at

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the conference that he just kind of sit

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back and take it all in okay so I went

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to the conference with my husband Dan

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and we were both at the conference and

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my husband Dan was who has blown away by

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Chris and just was so excited and I was

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very reserved so at that conference I

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actually didn't talk to Chris but my

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husband did so my husband went up to him

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and Chris you know chris is this kind of

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star and he's got a very very humble

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persona and all these people were word

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like thronged around him so I I wasn't

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gonna fight him off and talk to him but

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I did actually he did come to an another

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UFO conference down in Wilmington where

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I live and I talked to him then and we

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had quite an amazing talk and we've been

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friends ever since so I got to see up

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close you know an experience or what

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happens to their family the various

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stages of belief that he went through I

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mean you know it's not an easy thing to

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Pete you know cuz he was you know he was

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a Baptist and then this happened to him

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and his whole congregation turned

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against him and thought it was demonic

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and you know he went through quite a bit

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so I got to see that that it happened in

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real time so you had mentioned thinking

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about chucking the whole thing at one

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point tell us a little bit about that

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sure this is when I realized that there

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were a lot of I mean I'm just gonna say

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it straight up there are a lot of

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government affiliations within the

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community of UFO believers ufologist

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experiencers and i was invited to a

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conference and i went and it was filled

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with a lot of you know people who names

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you'd recognize and that type of thing

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and it was kind of a special conference

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it was it was funded by a millionaire

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00:12:06,550 --> 00:12:01,970
and there were I mean at that conference

271
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I could sense an undercurrent

272
00:12:12,220 --> 00:12:09,920
people gathering information and I

273
00:12:13,540 --> 00:12:12,230
wasn't I didn't trust a lot of people I

274
00:12:16,030 --> 00:12:13,550
was with Chris Bledsoe and his wife

275
00:12:18,220 --> 00:12:16,040
Yvonne and I stuck with them and I met

276
00:12:20,710 --> 00:12:18,230
Grant Cameron at that conference and I

277
00:12:23,170 --> 00:12:20,720
pretty much stuck around them and and I

278
00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:23,180
was I sent I mean you know in this field

279
00:12:27,460 --> 00:12:24,770
you have to have with what Jacque of LA

280
00:12:29,140 --> 00:12:27,470
calls discernment and that's really to

281
00:12:31,780 --> 00:12:29,150
discern who you can trust and who you

282
00:12:34,330 --> 00:12:31,790
can't and very quickly I felt that I

283
00:12:37,150 --> 00:12:34,340
couldn't trust a lot of people and in

284
00:12:38,980 --> 00:12:37,160
fact I felt even in danger so I got back

285
00:12:40,660 --> 00:12:38,990
from that conference and after that I

286
00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:40,670
thought about it and I thought you know

287
00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:41,210
I

288
00:12:54,190 --> 00:12:52,370
was a you know he was upset because you

289
00:12:57,030 --> 00:12:54,200
know he and I had become friends kind of

290
00:13:00,040 --> 00:12:57,040
like research partners even and

291
00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:00,050
strangely enough directly after that was

292
00:13:04,210 --> 00:13:02,930
my birthday and you know by this time I

293
00:13:07,510 --> 00:13:04,220
was like you know this is about a week

294
00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:07,520
or two later and I'm not having the best

295
00:13:13,330 --> 00:13:10,970
birthday and you know it's it's late at

296
00:13:16,450 --> 00:13:13,340
night and I'm doing my work and I get

297
00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:16,460
this email and apparently a woman who

298
00:13:20,740 --> 00:13:18,290
believes that she's dying of cancer but

299
00:13:25,630 --> 00:13:20,750
she's thankfully still alive but she

300
00:13:28,270 --> 00:13:25,640
wanted to give me her this giant library

301
00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:28,280
of research and I honestly thought it

302
00:13:32,230 --> 00:13:30,050
was Catholic research and I said I'd

303
00:13:34,060 --> 00:13:32,240
gladly accept it you know and it turned

304
00:13:35,890 --> 00:13:34,070
out to be UFO research and it was Brenda

305
00:13:37,450 --> 00:13:35,900
denzler and she wrote the lure of the

306
00:13:39,250 --> 00:13:37,460
edge and she has a PhD from Duke

307
00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:39,260
University and she just did she didn't

308
00:13:42,970 --> 00:13:41,570
know me but she gave me this giant she

309
00:13:46,420 --> 00:13:42,980
said that chapel hill wouldn't take it

310
00:13:48,100 --> 00:13:46,430
so my husband and I went to get it and

311
00:13:49,860 --> 00:13:48,110
you know it was filled up our whole we

312
00:13:52,660 --> 00:13:49,870
have a giant car filled up our whole

313
00:13:55,450 --> 00:13:52,670
Ford Expedition and we took it and put

314
00:13:58,360 --> 00:13:55,460
it in a warehouse and now it's at Rice

315
00:14:00,970 --> 00:13:58,370
University by the way and I had I went

316
00:14:03,100 --> 00:14:00,980
through the research and I and you know

317
00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:03,110
I was stuck again so I got back into it

318
00:14:08,770 --> 00:14:05,690
ha ha ha ha so you've already got a

319
00:14:10,660 --> 00:14:08,780
couple of magical helpers you've made

320
00:14:12,790 --> 00:14:10,670
contact with Chris so you go out and you

321
00:14:15,700 --> 00:14:12,800
see ballet what's the next step there

322
00:14:17,590 --> 00:14:15,710
what's the next step on the path the

323
00:14:19,780 --> 00:14:17,600
next step on the path first I get worn

324
00:14:21,490 --> 00:14:19,790
by valet so I'm at account

325
00:14:24,220 --> 00:14:21,500
conference and this is part you know I

326
00:14:27,610 --> 00:14:24,230
opened my book with a with a car ride

327
00:14:29,230 --> 00:14:27,620
with valet and Robbie Graham and he's

328
00:14:31,510 --> 00:14:29,240
taking us through a tour of Silicon

329
00:14:33,370 --> 00:14:31,520
Valley and he's basically showing us all

330
00:14:35,500 --> 00:14:33,380
of these places and basically saying and

331
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:35,510
here here and I was really getting the

332
00:14:41,230 --> 00:14:38,210
he would he tell me directly but he was

333
00:14:44,350 --> 00:14:41,240
basically saying this is where a lot of

334
00:14:46,300 --> 00:14:44,360
stuff if you know really a not anomalous

335
00:14:48,940 --> 00:14:46,310
phenomena that has to do with technology

336
00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:48,950
happened and so you know this is the

337
00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:50,570
place where I grew up so I looked around

338
00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:53,090
and I thought wow I had no idea this was

339
00:15:00,370 --> 00:14:57,650
happening and and so that blew my mind

340
00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:00,380
and along with that though came warnings

341
00:15:03,730 --> 00:15:03,050
from valet and valet would tell me trust

342
00:15:06,430 --> 00:15:03,740
no one

343
00:15:09,220 --> 00:15:06,440
don't even trust her eyes and so you

344
00:15:13,290 --> 00:15:09,230
know I mean so I was I started then to

345
00:15:15,940 --> 00:15:13,300
meet people who were like Tyler and

346
00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:15,950
people who I then would call the meta

347
00:15:20,850 --> 00:15:18,290
experiencers and the people who were

348
00:15:23,950 --> 00:15:20,860
around the experiencers and were

349
00:15:27,940 --> 00:15:23,960
biotechnologists who were believing that

350
00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:27,950
they were engineering technologies based

351
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:29,690
on what they learned from the

352
00:15:34,810 --> 00:15:31,610
experiences or based on what they

353
00:15:37,630 --> 00:15:34,820
learned from artifacts at crash sites so

354
00:15:39,700 --> 00:15:37,640
this was something that I thought was

355
00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:39,710
mythology you know there is a mythology

356
00:15:44,820 --> 00:15:42,290
called Prometheus and it's an ancient

357
00:15:49,330 --> 00:15:44,830
Greek myth and it's basically about a

358
00:15:51,970 --> 00:15:49,340
man God you know helping humans survive

359
00:15:53,470 --> 00:15:51,980
by giving them technology and I thought

360
00:15:55,930 --> 00:15:53,480
this is kind of like the modern myth of

361
00:15:57,610 --> 00:15:55,940
it but the problem with that scenario

362
00:16:03,220 --> 00:15:57,620
and I put it out there in the book is

363
00:16:05,950 --> 00:16:03,230
that this myth is actually real know how

364
00:16:07,750 --> 00:16:05,960
to articulate that I can't say that in

365
00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:07,760
the book you know I can't say well wait

366
00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:09,530
a minute these technologies are actually

367
00:16:15,430 --> 00:16:11,330
real technologies and we actually use

368
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:15,440
them and how does that work so whether

369
00:16:20,350 --> 00:16:18,890
or not the artifacts really are what

370
00:16:23,350 --> 00:16:20,360
they are what these people believe them

371
00:16:26,230 --> 00:16:23,360
to be for a fact the technologies that

372
00:16:29,110 --> 00:16:26,240
come from this belief are real so that

373
00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:29,120
was right that is what a changed

374
00:16:33,340 --> 00:16:31,370
everything for me another what John Mac

375
00:16:35,290 --> 00:16:33,350
would call the metaphysical shock

376
00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:35,300
you know the epistemological shock where

377
00:16:39,700 --> 00:16:37,490
your whole you know framework of what

378
00:16:43,180 --> 00:16:39,710
you think is real all kind of shifts and

379
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:43,190
so I spent you know so 2012 was it was a

380
00:16:47,350 --> 00:16:45,650
watershed year for my view of the world

381
00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:47,360
or everything kind of changed I viewed

382
00:16:53,020 --> 00:16:50,530
my own childhood differently you know

383
00:16:55,510 --> 00:16:53,030
okay yeah going back to what you were

384
00:16:58,120 --> 00:16:55,520
saying about the meta experiences and

385
00:17:00,730 --> 00:16:58,130
the technologists are are these

386
00:17:03,580 --> 00:17:00,740
technology folks these developers are

387
00:17:07,660 --> 00:17:03,590
they using these meta experiences as

388
00:17:11,410 --> 00:17:07,670
muses to use a mythological term yes so

389
00:17:13,630 --> 00:17:11,420
what they're doing is they are like say

390
00:17:17,590 --> 00:17:13,640
let's take Chris Bledsoe so Chris play

391
00:17:18,550 --> 00:17:17,600
so did attract a lot of scientists and a

392
00:17:20,620 --> 00:17:18,560
lot of these scientists were

393
00:17:23,740 --> 00:17:20,630
experiencers themselves and some of them

394
00:17:26,890 --> 00:17:23,750
were not but for sure they wanted to

395
00:17:28,570 --> 00:17:26,900
know everything about what Chris knew

396
00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:28,580
and they would take that information

397
00:17:33,130 --> 00:17:31,250
back and they would maybe create a

398
00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:33,140
patent or something like that and then

399
00:17:36,700 --> 00:17:34,850
they would create a technology from it

400
00:17:40,060 --> 00:17:36,710
and Chris Bledsoe he's not the only one

401
00:17:42,310 --> 00:17:40,070
he's just one of many and so it wasn't

402
00:17:45,430 --> 00:17:42,320
just the experiencers but it was also

403
00:17:52,330 --> 00:17:45,440
the artifacts that were being used in

404
00:17:56,110 --> 00:17:52,340
this way James what do you got here yeah

405
00:17:58,900 --> 00:17:56,120
going back to your journey through this

406
00:18:01,840 --> 00:17:58,910
you said you dude you're your childhood

407
00:18:04,870 --> 00:18:01,850
differently how is your change your view

408
00:18:07,090 --> 00:18:04,880
change from you know when you I guess

409
00:18:08,980 --> 00:18:07,100
you could say outside of this to the

410
00:18:12,810 --> 00:18:08,990
beginning of your journey in 2012 to now

411
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:12,820
how has your view of the subject chained

412
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:16,610
okay so there were things in my

413
00:18:22,390 --> 00:18:19,010
childhood that I did not I never really

414
00:18:24,660 --> 00:18:22,400
understood but they nonetheless happened

415
00:18:28,450 --> 00:18:24,670
and not just to me but to my brother and

416
00:18:34,390 --> 00:18:28,460
where I grew up there was there was a

417
00:18:39,580 --> 00:18:34,400
UFO sighting and and it was and my

418
00:18:42,730 --> 00:18:39,590
brother saw it and from there all things

419
00:18:44,650 --> 00:18:42,740
would happen but I never thought twice

420
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:44,660
about it frankly I never like my parents

421
00:18:47,270 --> 00:18:46,490
did my parents are non-believers but

422
00:18:48,770 --> 00:18:47,280
they said oh yeah

423
00:18:50,570 --> 00:18:48,780
saw this and you know kind of thing they

424
00:18:51,710 --> 00:18:50,580
my father actually called the police

425
00:18:57,260 --> 00:18:51,720
thinking that they were going to do

426
00:19:00,050 --> 00:18:57,270
something about it and and so you know

427
00:19:03,230 --> 00:19:00,060
what happened was I forgot about all

428
00:19:06,410 --> 00:19:03,240
that stuff and then once I started to

429
00:19:08,630 --> 00:19:06,420
become aware of the kinds of things that

430
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:08,640
happen to people in their experiences

431
00:19:13,070 --> 00:19:10,410
like every single person in the book

432
00:19:16,130 --> 00:19:13,080
right I thought wow these are similar

433
00:19:18,350 --> 00:19:16,140
patterns and then when I saw these

434
00:19:20,330 --> 00:19:18,360
patterns I looked through this lens back

435
00:19:22,910 --> 00:19:20,340
even when Jacques took me through the

436
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:22,920
places I knew it as a kid I looked at

437
00:19:27,470 --> 00:19:25,170
these and I thought no way you know this

438
00:19:32,330 --> 00:19:27,480
happened at that in that building and so

439
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:32,340
I just reached the I saw a new era

440
00:19:40,250 --> 00:19:36,690
basically I saw the era of the kind of

441
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:40,260
world we live in now which is linked not

442
00:19:44,570 --> 00:19:42,210
only to the UFO but also to

443
00:19:47,030 --> 00:19:44,580
technological yet illogical

444
00:19:49,220 --> 00:19:47,040
infrastructure by the way it's really

445
00:19:51,350 --> 00:19:49,230
interesting I'm writing two articles

446
00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:51,360
right now one for Vice magazine and one

447
00:19:56,090 --> 00:19:53,490
for Oxford and they're gonna put it on

448
00:19:58,730 --> 00:19:56,100
their blog and it's basically a little

449
00:20:01,000 --> 00:19:58,740
bit about how a lot of really smart

450
00:20:03,710 --> 00:20:01,010
people now like it on musk basically say

451
00:20:05,210 --> 00:20:03,720
diesel technology is going to be our is

452
00:20:08,570 --> 00:20:05,220
going to be the superhuman intelligence

453
00:20:12,500 --> 00:20:08,580
so if we encounter aliens they it will

454
00:20:17,330 --> 00:20:12,510
be a form of super intelligent digital

455
00:20:20,420 --> 00:20:17,340
technology yeah that's a really

456
00:20:22,250 --> 00:20:20,430
interesting I know you go technology in

457
00:20:28,130 --> 00:20:22,260
your book and how its intertwine with

458
00:20:32,150 --> 00:20:28,140
belief but another thing I wanted to ask

459
00:20:36,470 --> 00:20:32,160
was you know you have this book out now

460
00:20:40,010 --> 00:20:36,480
and you know you're you're almost like a

461
00:20:43,820 --> 00:20:40,020
mini celebrity in the UFO world but your

462
00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:43,830
eyes your students know of your work in

463
00:20:47,570 --> 00:20:45,360
this subject now obviously it's out in

464
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:47,580
the public do they ever come to you and

465
00:20:56,390 --> 00:20:53,250
ask about UFOs oh yes all the time so so

466
00:20:57,980 --> 00:20:56,400
we've got in the people who received my

467
00:20:59,390 --> 00:20:57,990
book the first of all there's a lot of

468
00:21:01,080 --> 00:20:59,400
people that are offended by the book

469
00:21:03,810 --> 00:21:01,090
because they're religious

470
00:21:05,340 --> 00:21:03,820
like and I you know that that happened

471
00:21:07,619 --> 00:21:05,350
with my book about purgatory it happens

472
00:21:09,389 --> 00:21:07,629
to people who write about religion but

473
00:21:11,549 --> 00:21:09,399
then there are people who and then there

474
00:21:13,259 --> 00:21:11,559
ufologist who are offended by it because

475
00:21:16,049 --> 00:21:13,269
it talks about religion so you know I

476
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:16,059
can't really please everyone but a lot

477
00:21:23,789 --> 00:21:19,690
of people are interested and the what's

478
00:21:25,739 --> 00:21:23,799
really interesting is that people you

479
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:25,749
know this the Silicon Valley people are

480
00:21:29,850 --> 00:21:28,210
like the ones that are asking me to

481
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:29,860
write more about it and you know they're

482
00:21:33,899 --> 00:21:31,330
asking me because this is their belief

483
00:21:35,700 --> 00:21:33,909
structure you're like wow yeah I knew

484
00:21:40,169 --> 00:21:35,710
that but I didn't know I I never put it

485
00:21:44,100 --> 00:21:40,179
into those words right and so so now my

486
00:21:48,989 --> 00:21:44,110
students oh yeah my students they you

487
00:21:50,940 --> 00:21:48,999
know if I taught a class on UFOs it

488
00:21:53,879 --> 00:21:50,950
would fill and I'd have a waiting list I

489
00:21:54,330 --> 00:21:53,889
mean we have want to know right they all

490
00:21:59,609 --> 00:21:54,340
want to know

491
00:22:01,619 --> 00:21:59,619
so no please sorry sorry about that yeah

492
00:22:05,489 --> 00:22:01,629
I was gonna say as a chairperson I don't

493
00:22:08,850 --> 00:22:05,499
teach right now but you know I will

494
00:22:11,820 --> 00:22:08,860
teach again but I do have students who I

495
00:22:13,169 --> 00:22:11,830
send off to graduate schools and they're

496
00:22:16,830 --> 00:22:13,179
they're on board

497
00:22:19,859 --> 00:22:16,840
they're totally interested so yeah young

498
00:22:21,389 --> 00:22:19,869
people are major believers I did see in

499
00:22:23,580 --> 00:22:21,399
the news recently that there's gonna be

500
00:22:25,950 --> 00:22:23,590
a class taught I can't recall if was

501
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:25,960
that your college or another school in

502
00:22:31,049 --> 00:22:28,450
North Carolina about UFOs they've

503
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:31,059
actually got a yes on that now that's a

504
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:33,970
friend of my date David Halperin he's a

505
00:22:39,629 --> 00:22:36,730
genius so this this guy is a genius he's

506
00:22:44,149 --> 00:22:39,639
he knows yok Jacque and David go way

507
00:22:46,769 --> 00:22:44,159
back to the 60s in at UC Berkeley and

508
00:22:48,779 --> 00:22:46,779
David I mean when you get these guys

509
00:22:52,049 --> 00:22:48,789
together you this is history

510
00:22:54,810 --> 00:22:52,059
so David Halperin is he does his

511
00:22:56,999 --> 00:22:54,820
specialty is Ezekiel's wheel and he's a

512
00:22:58,830 --> 00:22:57,009
Jewish Studies scholar and he knows you

513
00:23:02,340 --> 00:22:58,840
know the Hebrew and all the languages of

514
00:23:04,980 --> 00:23:02,350
the Hebrew Bible and so he's a believe

515
00:23:07,019 --> 00:23:04,990
well he's not actually a quote/unquote

516
00:23:10,499 --> 00:23:07,029
believer like jacque's a believer but he

517
00:23:12,899 --> 00:23:10,509
is an expert and he's got his own book

518
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:12,909
and too I think once coming out and he's

519
00:23:17,350 --> 00:23:15,050
got a great book on the topic

520
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:17,360
so it's taught by him and I'd take it if

521
00:23:21,700 --> 00:23:19,730
I I don't live I live about two hours

522
00:23:23,890 --> 00:23:21,710
from Duke University but if I could I'd

523
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:23,900
take it okay he's a Duke I couldn't

524
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:25,490
remember off the top of my hand I knew

525
00:23:28,510 --> 00:23:27,050
it was a college in North Carolina I

526
00:23:31,570 --> 00:23:28,520
couldn't specifically remember which one

527
00:23:33,430 --> 00:23:31,580
but now I were you in contact with him

528
00:23:36,850 --> 00:23:33,440
during these early stages of the later

529
00:23:40,270 --> 00:23:36,860
stages of your research or absolutely

530
00:23:42,430 --> 00:23:40,280
and so David came I've David's been at

531
00:23:45,010 --> 00:23:42,440
some of the conference's that I attended

532
00:23:47,410 --> 00:23:45,020
and several so I know David very well

533
00:23:49,510 --> 00:23:47,420
and he actually came down for an

534
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:49,520
afternoon and has spent an afternoon

535
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:53,690
going through my inherited library by

536
00:23:58,990 --> 00:23:55,850
Det Brenda denzler and he took a whole

537
00:24:02,950 --> 00:23:59,000
car full of stuff back with him to

538
00:24:04,990 --> 00:24:02,960
Chapel Hill and and then ultimately

539
00:24:06,340 --> 00:24:05,000
donated it to rice too so Rice

540
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:06,350
University right now

541
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:09,530
is a place that's establishing a UFO

542
00:24:13,810 --> 00:24:11,290
library under jeff kraebel

543
00:24:16,510 --> 00:24:13,820
okay and now he's is a name that has

544
00:24:18,790 --> 00:24:16,520
come up in the past a recent past in

545
00:24:20,830 --> 00:24:18,800
nerve related to this subject and you

546
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:20,840
are either planning to or have debated

547
00:24:25,630 --> 00:24:23,290
him he seems to be of the opinion that

548
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:25,640
increased knowledge and acceptance of

549
00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:28,010
this UFO thing is going to be the end of

550
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:30,290
religion and you think otherwise is that

551
00:24:36,100 --> 00:24:32,810
about right yeah that's right that was

552
00:24:40,300 --> 00:24:36,110
at Ohio State and Jeff his great friend

553
00:24:43,630 --> 00:24:40,310
and he is in my field he's well-known

554
00:24:45,670 --> 00:24:43,640
and he's really changed the field of

555
00:24:49,450 --> 00:24:45,680
religious studies to include the study

556
00:24:50,890 --> 00:24:49,460
of UFOs and it was one of his books by

557
00:24:52,870 --> 00:24:50,900
the way you should not miss this book

558
00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:52,880
it's called authors of the impossible

559
00:24:58,960 --> 00:24:55,610
and there's a great chapter in there on

560
00:25:02,200 --> 00:24:58,970
Jacques Vallee and it's called the

561
00:25:03,340 --> 00:25:02,210
future mythology of folklore I think is

562
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:03,350
what it's called it's really a great

563
00:25:08,770 --> 00:25:05,810
chapter and it changed my life when I

564
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:08,780
read it and Jeff has actually changed my

565
00:25:13,510 --> 00:25:10,690
life so Jeff was actually a person who

566
00:25:15,220 --> 00:25:13,520
was asked by my press to blurb my

567
00:25:18,070 --> 00:25:15,230
purgatory book and somehow we got

568
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:18,080
talking about UFOs and we realized that

569
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:20,930
we knew a lot of people in common so we

570
00:25:24,790 --> 00:25:22,250
started working together or not and

571
00:25:26,740 --> 00:25:24,800
we're very good colleagues we Rico

572
00:25:28,510 --> 00:25:26,750
organized a lot of different Oregon is a

573
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:28,520
not a lot of organizations but a lot of

574
00:25:33,190 --> 00:25:28,850
different

575
00:25:34,300 --> 00:25:33,200
conferences so so with this debate it

576
00:25:37,570 --> 00:25:34,310
went like this

577
00:25:45,850 --> 00:25:37,580
so just thinks that you won the debate

578
00:25:49,630 --> 00:25:45,860
right it was basically that I said that

579
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:49,640
I think that belief that you can you

580
00:25:55,090 --> 00:25:51,410
could show that there's this historical

581
00:25:57,550 --> 00:25:55,100
tradition of themes from the sky coming

582
00:25:59,980 --> 00:25:57,560
down and interacting with humans and

583
00:26:02,350 --> 00:25:59,990
that this somehow enriches human life

584
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:02,360
and that this is not so far off from

585
00:26:06,910 --> 00:26:05,090
religion anyway so religion is capable

586
00:26:09,690 --> 00:26:06,920
of absorbing and in fact if you look at

587
00:26:13,540 --> 00:26:09,700
Catholicism there is no official

588
00:26:15,790 --> 00:26:13,550
position on UFOs right some Catholics

589
00:26:17,230 --> 00:26:15,800
believe it some Catholics don't but

590
00:26:18,970 --> 00:26:17,240
there's no official position it could

591
00:26:20,770 --> 00:26:18,980
possibly be out you know yeah they could

592
00:26:22,270 --> 00:26:20,780
possibly and if they are God created

593
00:26:24,430 --> 00:26:22,280
them that that would be an official

594
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:24,440
position if they had one so Jeff thinks

595
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:26,930
that if the UFO thing comes out that

596
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:30,290
it's gonna change the way it's gonna

597
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:32,330
open religion up religion is gonna you

598
00:26:35,830 --> 00:26:34,250
know have a hard people who are really

599
00:26:37,630 --> 00:26:35,840
just are going to have a hard time

600
00:26:41,890 --> 00:26:37,640
accepting other life in the universe

601
00:26:45,730 --> 00:26:41,900
that's not centered on humans I mean I

602
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:45,740
see his point so I would expect some

603
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:47,690
folks will but I don't think it'll be

604
00:26:53,860 --> 00:26:50,210
that many when they're you were talking

605
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:53,870
about if they're et advanced ETS out

606
00:26:57,790 --> 00:26:55,850
there a life on some other planet you

607
00:26:59,920 --> 00:26:57,800
know see me I got creative I think that

608
00:27:01,450 --> 00:26:59,930
already pretty well is that the position

609
00:27:04,570 --> 00:27:01,460
of the Catholic Church at the moment

610
00:27:06,850 --> 00:27:04,580
it's not or am I wrong on that it is I

611
00:27:09,220 --> 00:27:06,860
mean you know it's the person who talks

612
00:27:12,340 --> 00:27:09,230
about it if I probably shouldn't say so

613
00:27:14,530 --> 00:27:12,350
he's gonna get pretty a great feather

614
00:27:17,260 --> 00:27:14,540
guy Consolmagno and he's the director of

615
00:27:18,910 --> 00:27:17,270
the Vatican Archive and he's a very I

616
00:27:20,770 --> 00:27:18,920
mean he's not going to come out and say

617
00:27:23,050 --> 00:27:20,780
anything about topic because he just

618
00:27:24,850 --> 00:27:23,060
doesn't know but he said you know if

619
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:24,860
there and by the way you could read this

620
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:28,610
in his book called oh of course I can't

621
00:27:37,300 --> 00:27:34,250
remember the name but oh gosh anyway so

622
00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:37,310
there's a picture of an ET it looks like

623
00:27:42,610 --> 00:27:40,130
this is seeing chapel you know adam and

624
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:42,620
man kind of touching each other but

625
00:27:48,580 --> 00:27:46,490
it's an alien instead and daikon and you

626
00:27:51,690 --> 00:27:48,590
wrote that with Paul Muller who who's a

627
00:27:54,430 --> 00:27:51,700
Jesuit priest and they do talk about

628
00:27:56,169 --> 00:27:54,440
extraterrestrial life and what would you

629
00:27:57,669 --> 00:27:56,179
know what would the church do if that

630
00:27:59,169 --> 00:27:57,679
were the case and you know they say you

631
00:28:01,299 --> 00:27:59,179
know it's not such a problem as people

632
00:28:05,409 --> 00:28:01,309
think it is it's like so there is you

633
00:28:07,659 --> 00:28:05,419
know and you know if there is there is

634
00:28:09,820 --> 00:28:07,669
and if there isn't there isn't but it

635
00:28:12,399 --> 00:28:09,830
doesn't change fundamentally the the

636
00:28:13,990 --> 00:28:12,409
Catholic and Christian idea that you

637
00:28:16,539 --> 00:28:14,000
know there's this all loving God who

638
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:16,549
created the universe that God could very

639
00:28:21,789 --> 00:28:18,770
well have created other beings other

640
00:28:24,220 --> 00:28:21,799
than humans yeah well even um in the

641
00:28:28,710 --> 00:28:24,230
late 90s and the early 2000s you had

642
00:28:32,529 --> 00:28:28,720
Monsignor Balducci talking about that

643
00:28:35,110 --> 00:28:32,539
yeah he was almost you know he gave that

644
00:28:37,149 --> 00:28:35,120
hierarchy is you know we're humans we're

645
00:28:40,450 --> 00:28:37,159
probably the lowest form of intelligent

646
00:28:42,580 --> 00:28:40,460
life and and gods universe and you know

647
00:28:47,919 --> 00:28:42,590
there are more advanced beings and going

648
00:28:50,740 --> 00:28:47,929
up to angels you know but given we're

649
00:28:51,519 --> 00:28:50,750
talking about you know different kryolan

650
00:28:55,269 --> 00:28:51,529
Steve helperman

651
00:28:57,669 --> 00:28:55,279
what what has been your at the

652
00:29:02,019 --> 00:28:57,679
atmosphere among your colleagues and the

653
00:29:03,730 --> 00:29:02,029
university since they you know cawing on

654
00:29:09,700 --> 00:29:03,740
that you're you're involved with the

655
00:29:13,690 --> 00:29:09,710
subject I'm so it's I mean seriously

656
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:13,700
it's been very positive I've last year I

657
00:29:20,889 --> 00:29:16,610
won my college is highest research award

658
00:29:23,889 --> 00:29:20,899
and I'm a full professor so I can't kind

659
00:29:25,990 --> 00:29:23,899
of go higher than that and I've been you

660
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:26,000
know I've been asked to be promoted to

661
00:29:30,029 --> 00:29:28,250
an associate dean and you know so it

662
00:29:35,830 --> 00:29:30,039
hasn't really affected my career at all

663
00:29:40,060 --> 00:29:35,840
so far you were talking about go ahead

664
00:29:43,180 --> 00:29:40,070
James sorry about that no really it's

665
00:29:45,789 --> 00:29:43,190
generally been a positive thing from

666
00:29:47,860 --> 00:29:45,799
yeah I mean I've been asked to speak at

667
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:47,870
Harvard I've been asked to speak at the

668
00:29:52,690 --> 00:29:50,210
Commonwealth Club where presidents speak

669
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:52,700
I've been just you know i I've been

670
00:29:56,410 --> 00:29:55,130
asked to do plenary speeches I mean this

671
00:30:00,280 --> 00:29:56,420
is always in the last two

672
00:30:01,750 --> 00:30:00,290
so I've publishers weekly wants to

673
00:30:03,820 --> 00:30:01,760
interview me they've given me a start

674
00:30:06,220 --> 00:30:03,830
with you I mean that's the again one of

675
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:06,230
the most prestigious things that can

676
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:10,010
happen to an author so so far I have not

677
00:30:16,030 --> 00:30:15,170
received the John Mac treatment I don't

678
00:30:18,100 --> 00:30:16,040
know what that is

679
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:18,110
oh yeah we don't we know all about it

680
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:22,010
but let's go through that for some folks

681
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:23,810
at our he ran into some problems at

682
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:25,370
Harvard when he was done his research

683
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:28,850
yes John Mac was someone who seems

684
00:30:32,950 --> 00:30:31,010
untouchable I mean he won a Pulitzer

685
00:30:37,140 --> 00:30:32,960
Prize for one of his books he was a

686
00:30:39,490 --> 00:30:37,150
research you know so when I give these

687
00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:39,500
identifications to the types you know

688
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:41,330
there's like if you look at lawyers

689
00:30:44,890 --> 00:30:42,890
there's the partner and then there's a

690
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:44,900
you know the associate and then the

691
00:30:48,940 --> 00:30:46,370
junior partner and that type of thing

692
00:30:51,580 --> 00:30:48,950
he was the highest up at Harvard he was

693
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:51,590
a research professor and he had won a

694
00:30:55,660 --> 00:30:53,930
Pulitzer Prize and so he decided he was

695
00:30:58,210 --> 00:30:55,670
going to do this study on people who

696
00:31:00,850 --> 00:30:58,220
believed in UFOs in contact with

697
00:31:02,770 --> 00:31:00,860
extraterrestrials and his research he's

698
00:31:04,630 --> 00:31:02,780
a psychiatrist so his research revealed

699
00:31:07,170 --> 00:31:04,640
that they were not crazy right that they

700
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:07,180
were just normal people who had a

701
00:31:14,260 --> 00:31:10,370
extraordinary phenomena happened to them

702
00:31:16,390 --> 00:31:14,270
and this was just crazy for people at

703
00:31:18,190 --> 00:31:16,400
Harvard so people at Harvard the

704
00:31:21,070 --> 00:31:18,200
hierarchy the deans and that type of

705
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:21,080
thing I'm you know investigated his

706
00:31:25,690 --> 00:31:23,690
research protocol which was unheard of

707
00:31:27,220 --> 00:31:25,700
and so he went through like I think it

708
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:27,230
was like a year he had to hire a lawyer

709
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:31,370
and he exactly yeah

710
00:31:36,130 --> 00:31:33,530
and he had to defend his academic

711
00:31:40,390 --> 00:31:36,140
freedom to do this and so that put a

712
00:31:41,830 --> 00:31:40,400
chill on the study of UFOs for academics

713
00:31:44,140 --> 00:31:41,840
you know we called the John Mack effect

714
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:44,150
oh don't study that and still if my

715
00:31:48,220 --> 00:31:46,010
students want you know to study that I

716
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:48,230
tell them I say no no you can't study it

717
00:31:52,900 --> 00:31:50,690
now you've got to wait until you're a

718
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:52,910
tenured professor and then you can study

719
00:31:56,860 --> 00:31:54,410
it you know I hate to say that but I'm

720
00:31:58,750 --> 00:31:56,870
just trying to help them just I'm just

721
00:32:00,400 --> 00:31:58,760
gonna throw in a little quick anecdote I

722
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:00,410
happen to know about Mack and it really

723
00:32:05,260 --> 00:32:02,450
got my attention what he was embarking

724
00:32:06,700 --> 00:32:05,270
on his studies into the experience or

725
00:32:08,290 --> 00:32:06,710
phenomenon the abduction phenomena

726
00:32:10,169 --> 00:32:08,300
whatever you want to call it one of the

727
00:32:12,149 --> 00:32:10,179
people he consulted was when we

728
00:32:13,889 --> 00:32:12,159
was another guy who was at Harvard at

729
00:32:15,930 --> 00:32:13,899
the same time another professor a guy

730
00:32:18,299 --> 00:32:15,940
named Thomas Kuhn yep exactly

731
00:32:21,799 --> 00:32:18,309
exactly who was the author of the

732
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:21,809
structure of scientific revolutions and

733
00:32:27,749 --> 00:32:24,610
that he's the guy who coined the phrase

734
00:32:30,539 --> 00:32:27,759
paradigm shift right brilliant brilliant

735
00:32:32,549 --> 00:32:30,549
guy brilliant guy and the advice that he

736
00:32:34,739 --> 00:32:32,559
gave Mac which Mac accounted in an

737
00:32:37,019 --> 00:32:34,749
interview years later but is stuck with

738
00:32:38,340 --> 00:32:37,029
me is forget about science all you're

739
00:32:40,649 --> 00:32:38,350
looking to do is to try to gain

740
00:32:43,169 --> 00:32:40,659
knowledge and that is stuck with me

741
00:32:45,210 --> 00:32:43,179
that's a that's my goal now and my own

742
00:32:47,759 --> 00:32:45,220
armchair studies is just try to gain

743
00:32:49,590 --> 00:32:47,769
knowledge about the subject so I went

744
00:32:51,659 --> 00:32:49,600
off on my little tangent here and now

745
00:32:56,190 --> 00:32:51,669
let's let's get back to the action sorry

746
00:32:58,440 --> 00:32:56,200
about that yeah so I actually closed

747
00:33:00,119 --> 00:32:58,450
that very passage in the conclusion to

748
00:33:02,700 --> 00:33:00,129
my book where I talk about James's

749
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:02,710
research and James is a scientist who I

750
00:33:08,129 --> 00:33:04,330
feature in the second chapter of my book

751
00:33:10,259 --> 00:33:08,139
and I go back to James in the in the

752
00:33:12,029 --> 00:33:10,269
conclusion because James is an

753
00:33:14,519 --> 00:33:12,039
incredible researcher one of the most

754
00:33:17,639 --> 00:33:14,529
incredible people I've ever met and you

755
00:33:19,470 --> 00:33:17,649
know to me he is exactly that person who

756
00:33:22,289 --> 00:33:19,480
pushes the boundaries of science into a

757
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:22,299
new paradigm and so I used that you know

758
00:33:26,430 --> 00:33:24,490
that framework to talk about his

759
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:26,440
research in the last part of the book

760
00:33:32,090 --> 00:33:28,330
about Thomas Kuhns you know the

761
00:33:34,049 --> 00:33:32,100
structure of scientific revolutions oh

762
00:33:35,669 --> 00:33:34,059
yeah this is the first time I you

763
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:35,679
brought up James why don't you tell

764
00:33:39,419 --> 00:33:37,570
about tell us a little bit about your

765
00:33:44,659 --> 00:33:39,429
contact with him and how he helped you

766
00:33:47,519 --> 00:33:44,669
along yes so what happened was that um

767
00:33:51,119 --> 00:33:47,529
Jeff Crowe and I were were going to

768
00:33:53,629 --> 00:33:51,129
bring together academics and people who

769
00:33:56,220 --> 00:33:53,639
were interested in the topic of UFOs and

770
00:34:00,119 --> 00:33:56,230
so we were doing a little research and

771
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:00,129
Jacques Pele suggested James and so I

772
00:34:07,409 --> 00:34:04,090
looked him up and I saw you know I saw

773
00:34:09,539 --> 00:34:07,419
his research and I showed Jeff and Jeff

774
00:34:11,430 --> 00:34:09,549
and I were like wow he wouldn't even

775
00:34:17,309 --> 00:34:11,440
want to come because he's just so

776
00:34:19,260 --> 00:34:17,319
amazing so we asked him and apparently

777
00:34:22,049 --> 00:34:19,270
this is something that he's obsessed

778
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:22,059
with so he said yes you know like right

779
00:34:27,389 --> 00:34:24,010
away like yes and he was you know

780
00:34:29,909 --> 00:34:27,399
this this guy is someone who is an

781
00:34:32,330 --> 00:34:29,919
amazing scholar let's put it that way an

782
00:34:35,250 --> 00:34:32,340
amazing scholar and for people who

783
00:34:36,780 --> 00:34:35,260
admire that you know like okay if you

784
00:34:41,220 --> 00:34:36,790
were to ask me who would you want to

785
00:34:44,550 --> 00:34:41,230
meet you know some famous actor or you

786
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:44,560
know somebody like that or James I'd say

787
00:34:49,379 --> 00:34:46,810
James right because James is way more

788
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:49,389
interesting to me than someone who plays

789
00:34:54,149 --> 00:34:52,330
interesting people right so so I would

790
00:34:57,030 --> 00:34:54,159
want to meet James and so we couldn't

791
00:34:59,790 --> 00:34:57,040
believe how unpretentious he was and in

792
00:35:01,770 --> 00:34:59,800
fact when we met him he was that that he

793
00:35:03,990 --> 00:35:01,780
was this still the same way and so he

794
00:35:06,090 --> 00:35:04,000
was just really really interested and

795
00:35:07,590 --> 00:35:06,100
you know that's what his true scientist

796
00:35:11,030 --> 00:35:07,600
has to be really obsessed with what

797
00:35:13,980 --> 00:35:11,040
they're doing and that was him and so he

798
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:13,990
hadn't actually met my other friend

799
00:35:20,790 --> 00:35:17,890
Tyler who I was also studying with and

800
00:35:22,109 --> 00:35:20,800
Tyler remind he reminded me of Tyler in

801
00:35:23,849 --> 00:35:22,119
many ways because they were both

802
00:35:25,980 --> 00:35:23,859
obsessed they were both scientists and

803
00:35:28,890 --> 00:35:25,990
they were both super successful so I

804
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:28,900
thought I'd introduce them and so I did

805
00:35:33,599 --> 00:35:31,450
and I had predicted that if I didn't

806
00:35:35,609 --> 00:35:33,609
reduce them that within a month they'd

807
00:35:38,220 --> 00:35:35,619
be working together and in fact that's

808
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:38,230
exactly what they were just doing you

809
00:35:42,980 --> 00:35:40,810
know they just took off doing this kind

810
00:35:45,599 --> 00:35:42,990
of research that was just a common sense

811
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:45,609
deduce things out prediction and not a

812
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:50,650
psychic prediction right yeah so like

813
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:53,290
that you know there we need to get them

814
00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:55,170
together so that's what happened and

815
00:36:01,310 --> 00:35:57,850
what happened next one say they all got

816
00:36:05,550 --> 00:36:01,320
together well what happened was that

817
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:05,560
Tyler was this person who was I was a I

818
00:36:09,090 --> 00:36:07,450
was actually truthfully suspicious of

819
00:36:20,329 --> 00:36:09,100
because you know it was early in the

820
00:36:20,339 --> 00:36:33,450
hello gluto yeah

821
00:36:44,710 --> 00:36:36,780
still on the line uh uh yeah cording

822
00:36:52,610 --> 00:36:48,080
had this happened with Kevin last week

823
00:37:09,480 --> 00:36:52,620
so let's go ahead and let's make a phone

824
00:37:42,070 --> 00:37:10,010
Oh

825
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:44,800
I'm sorry but the person you called has

826
00:37:48,390 --> 00:37:46,850
a voice mailbox that has not been set up

827
00:37:57,550 --> 00:37:48,400
yet

828
00:38:01,900 --> 00:37:57,560
oops okay diet are you there yeah I can

829
00:38:04,540 --> 00:38:01,910
hear you now we lost your person I don't

830
00:38:05,740 --> 00:38:04,550
know what happened yeah I don't well

831
00:38:11,050 --> 00:38:05,750
it's a good thing I'm recording that's

832
00:38:13,630 --> 00:38:11,060
all I can say yes okay yeah you were

833
00:38:19,300 --> 00:38:13,640
talking about the initial contact with

834
00:38:22,270 --> 00:38:19,310
yourself Tyler and James that's right

835
00:38:25,290 --> 00:38:22,280
right so so in the beginning before I

836
00:38:28,930 --> 00:38:25,300
met James actually I had met Tyler and

837
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:28,940
Tyler was a scientist and was a very

838
00:38:34,450 --> 00:38:31,490
successful one and had been affiliated

839
00:38:37,180 --> 00:38:34,460
with the space industry and worked on

840
00:38:41,350 --> 00:38:37,190
the Challenger and all you know a lot of

841
00:38:43,900 --> 00:38:41,360
space shuttle launches and was a person

842
00:38:48,070 --> 00:38:43,910
who was one of the meta experiencers and

843
00:38:51,460 --> 00:38:48,080
so I was like I said I was a little

844
00:38:53,590 --> 00:38:51,470
suspicious of meeting him but eventually

845
00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:53,600
after about a year maybe even a year and

846
00:38:59,530 --> 00:38:57,650
a half I convinced my friend jeff

847
00:39:01,780 --> 00:38:59,540
kraebel to meet him with me at a

848
00:39:06,750 --> 00:39:01,790
conference and he turned out to be just

849
00:39:11,110 --> 00:39:06,760
the nicest guy and very charming and and

850
00:39:13,090 --> 00:39:11,120
very fascinating and asked asked me if I

851
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:13,100
wanted to go to New Mexico to visit a

852
00:39:19,630 --> 00:39:16,450
crash site and see some of the parts or

853
00:39:21,820 --> 00:39:19,640
fry to find some of the parts and so at

854
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:21,830
first I did of course but I wanted to

855
00:39:28,630 --> 00:39:24,290
take somebody other than myself

856
00:39:30,940 --> 00:39:28,640
oh and so I suggested to him that and he

857
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:30,950
said no no you know it is a secret place

858
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:32,210
and you actually have to be blindfolded

859
00:39:40,270 --> 00:39:36,170
to go and so I said well no I'm not

860
00:39:43,060 --> 00:39:40,280
doing this by myself so so I asked James

861
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:43,070
and James you know said I'd go yesterday

862
00:39:48,730 --> 00:39:45,770
if you know cuz he like I said he's

863
00:39:51,460 --> 00:39:48,740
obsessed with this so James and I went

864
00:39:53,590 --> 00:39:51,470
at Tyler agreed to James and we went

865
00:39:55,810 --> 00:39:53,600
blindfolded in a car for about 45

866
00:40:00,400 --> 00:39:55,820
minutes we went to New Mexico it was

867
00:40:03,460 --> 00:40:00,410
I'd never been and we got there and we

868
00:40:06,310 --> 00:40:03,470
had metal detectors that were configured

869
00:40:07,930 --> 00:40:06,320
to do this specific type of thing that

870
00:40:11,530 --> 00:40:07,940
we were looking for and I don't know

871
00:40:14,020 --> 00:40:11,540
what that is and we spend all day there

872
00:40:16,420 --> 00:40:14,030
we had to wear special types of clothing

873
00:40:19,780 --> 00:40:16,430
because of rattlesnakes and it was

874
00:40:25,980 --> 00:40:19,790
incredibly beautiful but strangely

875
00:40:32,170 --> 00:40:29,890
stuff that looks like a deconstructed

876
00:40:34,720 --> 00:40:32,180
cans you know from like the 1950s or

877
00:40:36,910 --> 00:40:34,730
something the Luna 1 cans that had been

878
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:36,920
rusted and they were everywhere it was

879
00:40:43,290 --> 00:40:39,170
everywhere and so it took us a long time

880
00:40:45,460 --> 00:40:43,300
but we actually found some parts and and

881
00:40:48,010 --> 00:40:45,470
James shared with us some of his

882
00:40:52,350 --> 00:40:48,020
research at night about what he did and

883
00:40:58,600 --> 00:40:55,230
so that's what so it was really a weird

884
00:41:02,170 --> 00:40:58,610
experience but it was quite impactful

885
00:41:03,790 --> 00:41:02,180
and after that then a lot of things

886
00:41:06,220 --> 00:41:03,800
happen directly after that directly

887
00:41:09,190 --> 00:41:06,230
after that there was the big you know

888
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:09,200
Leslie cane and Ralph Blumenthal saying

889
00:41:13,270 --> 00:41:11,090
came out and so there was a lot of

890
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:13,280
emphasis on these artifacts these types

891
00:41:19,150 --> 00:41:16,610
of artifacts so I realized that I had

892
00:41:21,210 --> 00:41:19,160
been you know not by choice or anything

893
00:41:23,830 --> 00:41:21,220
or designed but I'd been placed in the

894
00:41:27,610 --> 00:41:23,840
midst of again this kind of Mythology

895
00:41:28,720 --> 00:41:27,620
and to me you know it's it's not really

896
00:41:32,740 --> 00:41:28,730
mythological where you could actually

897
00:41:35,590 --> 00:41:32,750
see the parts so you know so I'm living

898
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:35,600
this thing that most people see it on TV

899
00:41:40,780 --> 00:41:38,090
and they're like oh yeah you know I'm

900
00:41:45,730 --> 00:41:40,790
watching Project Blue Book I felt like

901
00:41:47,350 --> 00:41:45,740
you know wow you know I'm living it you

902
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:47,360
said when you were out there you didn't

903
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:48,050
hit some pay dirt

904
00:41:53,350 --> 00:41:49,490
you found something can you tell us a

905
00:41:54,700 --> 00:41:53,360
little bit about that yeah sure so I can

906
00:41:58,180 --> 00:41:54,710
tell you a little bit about some of the

907
00:42:01,150 --> 00:41:58,190
parts so one of the parts you can

908
00:42:03,460 --> 00:42:01,160
actually go to youtube and type in alien

909
00:42:05,260 --> 00:42:03,470
debris and whatnot and you'll see some

910
00:42:09,180 --> 00:42:05,270
parts that look similar to what we found

911
00:42:10,770 --> 00:42:09,190
it looks like okay

912
00:42:16,010 --> 00:42:10,780
this is sounds disgusting but it looks

913
00:42:18,690 --> 00:42:16,020
like frog skin that's metallic yeah

914
00:42:21,240 --> 00:42:18,700
really weird and then there's some other

915
00:42:25,950 --> 00:42:21,250
parts but I'm asked not to really

916
00:42:28,770 --> 00:42:25,960
describe those so and I know there were

917
00:42:31,589 --> 00:42:28,780
several different parts like there were

918
00:42:33,029 --> 00:42:31,599
basically two different types of Parts I

919
00:42:36,420 --> 00:42:33,039
would put them in two different

920
00:42:38,700 --> 00:42:36,430
categories and apparently and so Tyler

921
00:42:40,079 --> 00:42:38,710
actually I think I said I mean I did say

922
00:42:42,299 --> 00:42:40,089
this in my book when I take off my

923
00:42:44,190 --> 00:42:42,309
blindfold I look around and Tyler says I

924
00:42:46,470 --> 00:42:44,200
keep looking at this one area and Tyler

925
00:42:48,390 --> 00:42:46,480
says oh you recognize that place and I

926
00:42:52,500 --> 00:42:48,400
say you know already this is a weird

927
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:52,510
situation and I say well I I've never

928
00:42:56,970 --> 00:42:54,490
been here so how can I recognize it

929
00:42:59,520 --> 00:42:56,980
and he said well you've seen this on the

930
00:43:04,260 --> 00:42:59,530
episode in the x-files this is that

931
00:43:06,990 --> 00:43:04,270
crash site and I was like I you know I

932
00:43:09,660 --> 00:43:07,000
thought okay well yeah this is it this

933
00:43:11,910 --> 00:43:09,670
is definitely where I'm supposed to be

934
00:43:14,039 --> 00:43:11,920
because I study media and religion and

935
00:43:17,069 --> 00:43:14,049
you know that's exactly the cross here

936
00:43:19,589 --> 00:43:17,079
I'm at the crossroads of mythology being

937
00:43:22,260 --> 00:43:19,599
invented not just on TV and in the

938
00:43:24,029 --> 00:43:22,270
movies but in real life as well so you

939
00:43:25,859 --> 00:43:24,039
know it was like it was a weird mixture

940
00:43:28,380 --> 00:43:25,869
between real life and movies and

941
00:43:29,910 --> 00:43:28,390
everything else that really makes you

942
00:43:31,589 --> 00:43:29,920
know that you're not living in the same

943
00:43:33,809 --> 00:43:31,599
world as like people who lived in the

944
00:43:37,170 --> 00:43:33,819
1980s this is a completely different

945
00:43:38,849 --> 00:43:37,180
world and a you were talking earlier

946
00:43:41,329 --> 00:43:38,859
before we got on the air a little bit

947
00:43:44,359 --> 00:43:41,339
about some of the confusion around these

948
00:43:47,490 --> 00:43:44,369
fragments that might be of e.t origin

949
00:43:49,890 --> 00:43:47,500
the when the story first came out it was

950
00:43:52,349 --> 00:43:49,900
in conjunction with a story about the

951
00:43:55,980 --> 00:43:52,359
Pentagon study and it had been mentioned

952
00:43:58,529 --> 00:43:55,990
that these materials do exist I think if

953
00:44:01,019 --> 00:43:58,539
you some people got confused that these

954
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:01,029
aren't necessarily in government hands

955
00:44:04,490 --> 00:44:03,010
but a lot of the stuff that is under

956
00:44:07,620 --> 00:44:04,500
study a lot of these fragments are

957
00:44:09,299 --> 00:44:07,630
actually in private hands so you're not

958
00:44:11,039 --> 00:44:09,309
gonna be able to file for your requests

959
00:44:12,539 --> 00:44:11,049
about those but can you tell us a little

960
00:44:16,470 --> 00:44:12,549
bit more about that clear some of that

961
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:16,480
up for us yeah sure so this is just from

962
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:18,970
my perspective from my perspective I

963
00:44:22,260 --> 00:44:20,770
read you know of course when you do a

964
00:44:22,990 --> 00:44:22,270
study like this and this is why it takes

965
00:44:25,240 --> 00:44:23,000
so long to do

966
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:25,250
as you read everything you can and so

967
00:44:31,180 --> 00:44:27,770
I'd read about you know Corso right

968
00:44:35,170 --> 00:44:31,190
and Corso being the guy who supposedly

969
00:44:36,910 --> 00:44:35,180
you know he's you know the book is the

970
00:44:41,290 --> 00:44:36,920
day after Roswell I think is called and

971
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:41,300
so basically his his contention true or

972
00:44:47,500 --> 00:44:45,410
not is that he had these parts and he

973
00:44:49,180 --> 00:44:47,510
brought them to private industry and he

974
00:44:51,250 --> 00:44:49,190
told them that was Chinese or Russian

975
00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:51,260
parts and that they needed to engineer

976
00:44:57,190 --> 00:44:53,690
them back engineer them and so now this

977
00:45:00,130 --> 00:44:57,200
new guy Tyler is like Corso but instead

978
00:45:03,130 --> 00:45:00,140
of taking these parts and giving them to

979
00:45:05,170 --> 00:45:03,140
private industry he finds because he's

980
00:45:08,290 --> 00:45:05,180
able to find people like you know James

981
00:45:10,780 --> 00:45:08,300
he finds people you know and he says

982
00:45:13,020 --> 00:45:10,790
these are the kinds of that he compiles

983
00:45:15,550 --> 00:45:13,030
a team of people who can help him

984
00:45:19,420 --> 00:45:15,560
engineer bio technologies from these

985
00:45:21,670 --> 00:45:19,430
parts and so that basically is what was

986
00:45:24,370 --> 00:45:21,680
going on but it was not like what was

987
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:24,380
happening you know in Corso his time it

988
00:45:27,490 --> 00:45:25,610
happened differently and this time is

989
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:27,500
happening in this way and so it's not

990
00:45:32,050 --> 00:45:29,210
like these part you know say the

991
00:45:32,410 --> 00:45:32,060
government it does the government-owned

992
00:45:35,380 --> 00:45:32,420
them

993
00:45:38,140 --> 00:45:35,390
I don't know right I don't know but I do

994
00:45:43,660 --> 00:45:38,150
know that private citizens owned them

995
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:43,670
and some of them the parts that we have

996
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:46,130
are you know these are Bigelow's parts

997
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:48,770
or these aren't TTS A's parts I mean

998
00:45:52,900 --> 00:45:50,570
they might have the same parts I

999
00:45:54,670 --> 00:45:52,910
actually don't know I'm not a scientist

1000
00:45:57,190 --> 00:45:54,680
and I'm not privy to any of the parts

1001
00:46:01,180 --> 00:45:57,200
that they have at all so I can't I can't

1002
00:46:02,530 --> 00:46:01,190
say anything about them but these are in

1003
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:02,540
fact I don't even know where these parts

1004
00:46:10,150 --> 00:46:05,210
are I'm a I'm a lowly religious studies

1005
00:46:12,100 --> 00:46:10,160
scholar I am NOT so I don't have the

1006
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:12,110
parts and if I did have them I wouldn't

1007
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:15,290
even know what to do with them in your

1008
00:46:20,410 --> 00:46:18,170
in your book you do mention that Tyler

1009
00:46:23,470 --> 00:46:20,420
and James had commented on what you know

1010
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:23,480
initial comments about the the artifacts

1011
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:27,170
um you want to say what they what they

1012
00:46:31,330 --> 00:46:30,010
initially thought about the artifacts

1013
00:46:35,590 --> 00:46:31,340
yes

1014
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:35,600
so okay so both or at least Tyler

1015
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:36,890
believes that they are

1016
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:41,930
crashed you know craft okay James being

1017
00:46:47,769 --> 00:46:46,130
an academic scientist entertains that

1018
00:46:50,019 --> 00:46:47,779
that might be true but it might not be

1019
00:46:53,319 --> 00:46:50,029
true so the thing I like about James and

1020
00:46:55,479 --> 00:46:53,329
even Jacque Fla is that they are they

1021
00:46:57,309 --> 00:46:55,489
don't conclude if they don't know I mean

1022
00:47:01,420 --> 00:46:57,319
they're just honest scientists

1023
00:47:04,359 --> 00:47:01,430
so James basically says I just know that

1024
00:47:06,370 --> 00:47:04,369
this couldn't have been made on earth

1025
00:47:07,839 --> 00:47:06,380
and not only could it not have been made

1026
00:47:09,069 --> 00:47:07,849
on earth it doesn't even look like it

1027
00:47:10,839 --> 00:47:09,079
could have made being laid in the

1028
00:47:12,430 --> 00:47:10,849
universe and then I didn't even you know

1029
00:47:14,579 --> 00:47:12,440
how do you process something like that

1030
00:47:19,890 --> 00:47:14,589
so Jacque basically looks at me and says

1031
00:47:21,789 --> 00:47:19,900
it exists because it's absurd you know

1032
00:47:23,589 --> 00:47:21,799
that's exactly it

1033
00:47:25,150 --> 00:47:23,599
so you know one of the things I like

1034
00:47:27,729 --> 00:47:25,160
about Jacques Bellies work is that he's

1035
00:47:30,430 --> 00:47:27,739
so incredibly intelligent with respect

1036
00:47:33,569 --> 00:47:30,440
to everything not just philosophy and

1037
00:47:37,420 --> 00:47:33,579
science but you know he also basically

1038
00:47:39,430 --> 00:47:37,430
you know says this is these things are

1039
00:47:41,859 --> 00:47:39,440
like Japanese Cohen's you know they're

1040
00:47:44,769 --> 00:47:41,869
just like we don't know they wake us up

1041
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:44,779
and you know what's the meaning of them

1042
00:47:49,809 --> 00:47:47,210
I don't know but they make sure that

1043
00:47:51,460 --> 00:47:49,819
that we know that the world is weirder

1044
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:51,470
than we think right so that's you know

1045
00:47:56,170 --> 00:47:54,170
Cohen a Japanese Cohen of Zen Buddhism

1046
00:47:59,559 --> 00:47:56,180
is this type of thing it's that makes

1047
00:48:01,569 --> 00:47:59,569
your rational mind it fatigues your

1048
00:48:03,970 --> 00:48:01,579
rational mind so that you can you know

1049
00:48:05,589 --> 00:48:03,980
be awakened to the true strangeness of

1050
00:48:08,170 --> 00:48:05,599
existence which is really beautiful and

1051
00:48:09,700 --> 00:48:08,180
strange and a UFO sighting will do that

1052
00:48:14,819 --> 00:48:09,710
and apparently these parts have done

1053
00:48:22,029 --> 00:48:19,299
okay well then after this so urine into

1054
00:48:25,170 --> 00:48:22,039
the desert where do you go for a from

1055
00:48:31,509 --> 00:48:25,180
from there what happens next

1056
00:48:37,029 --> 00:48:31,519
okay so from there um from there I write

1057
00:48:40,450 --> 00:48:37,039
my book so I grab my book and and I turn

1058
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:40,460
it in and you know it's in its Oxford

1059
00:48:44,650 --> 00:48:42,650
University Press so they're quite

1060
00:48:47,019 --> 00:48:44,660
academic well not quite I mean they

1061
00:48:50,740 --> 00:48:47,029
pretty much define academic stuff and so

1062
00:48:52,510 --> 00:48:50,750
my editor is you know she loves

1063
00:48:53,770 --> 00:48:52,520
the book but she's also horrified by

1064
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:53,780
some of it and she says they say you

1065
00:48:58,420 --> 00:48:56,090
can't see us and I said yeah I'm like

1066
00:49:00,340 --> 00:48:58,430
whoa but it did happen and she said but

1067
00:49:01,570 --> 00:49:00,350
why would that happen because these

1068
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:01,580
things don't exist or something like

1069
00:49:06,700 --> 00:49:04,370
that and I said well look even though

1070
00:49:08,530 --> 00:49:06,710
you and I know maybe it can't happen

1071
00:49:10,420 --> 00:49:08,540
let's just go along with it because this

1072
00:49:12,430 --> 00:49:10,430
is what you know I tried as much as I

1073
00:49:15,730 --> 00:49:12,440
could until I keep in all the parts that

1074
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:15,740
needed to be kept in and and in the

1075
00:49:20,080 --> 00:49:17,810
meantime there was this billionaire who

1076
00:49:22,510 --> 00:49:20,090
asked me if I would go study at the

1077
00:49:26,050 --> 00:49:22,520
Vatican archive if I would go study the

1078
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:26,060
secret archive if I could go study two

1079
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:27,890
left two Saints who were said to

1080
00:49:34,810 --> 00:49:32,210
levitate and also to buy locate and I

1081
00:49:37,420 --> 00:49:34,820
said I'd do that and then as I thought

1082
00:49:39,130 --> 00:49:37,430
about that I thought you know I should

1083
00:49:41,770 --> 00:49:39,140
actually take Tyler with me because

1084
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:41,780
Tyler has expertise in this type of

1085
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:44,210
thing you know in like things that go up

1086
00:49:48,790 --> 00:49:47,570
in the air right and aerial phenomena

1087
00:49:51,220 --> 00:49:48,800
and stuff like that and I thought you

1088
00:49:54,130 --> 00:49:51,230
know I bet you it was just an intuition

1089
00:49:58,420 --> 00:49:54,140
so I proposed this to the funding team

1090
00:50:02,230 --> 00:49:58,430
and they say great idea and so we headed

1091
00:50:03,820 --> 00:50:02,240
to the see the secret archive I could

1092
00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:03,830
get in I had the credentials to get in

1093
00:50:09,720 --> 00:50:06,250
it's not an easy place to get into and

1094
00:50:12,540 --> 00:50:09,730
but Tyler did not have those credentials

1095
00:50:16,450 --> 00:50:12,550
however the Quran shalls' he did have

1096
00:50:18,100 --> 00:50:16,460
got him in and got him a lot of access

1097
00:50:20,650 --> 00:50:18,110
and plus he was able to make a lot of

1098
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:20,660
connections there to people that I would

1099
00:50:27,460 --> 00:50:23,210
never have the ability to connect with

1100
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:27,470
so a postulator who's like a he's the

1101
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:30,290
past papal advisor his name name his

1102
00:50:35,380 --> 00:50:32,810
father goo Pell and you can look him up

1103
00:50:38,830 --> 00:50:35,390
online actually on Wikipedia

1104
00:50:40,750 --> 00:50:38,840
he's a Jesuit and and some and another

1105
00:50:42,130 --> 00:50:40,760
priest who I don't identify by his real

1106
00:50:44,740 --> 00:50:42,140
name because I don't think he would be

1107
00:50:48,100 --> 00:50:44,750
happy that I'm associated him with the

1108
00:50:51,220 --> 00:50:48,110
with the study of UFOs frankly he was

1109
00:50:53,620 --> 00:50:51,230
incredibly helpful and so we go so we go

1110
00:50:54,970 --> 00:50:53,630
and we look at the manuscripts and I

1111
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:54,980
think I sent you some of those

1112
00:50:59,170 --> 00:50:56,930
manuscripts and pictures of those and

1113
00:51:02,530 --> 00:50:59,180
you know we get and we also got to go to

1114
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:02,540
the Space Observatory up in Castel

1115
00:51:06,990 --> 00:51:04,570
Gandolfo with

1116
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:07,000
about an hour and a half outside of the

1117
00:51:13,650 --> 00:51:09,010
Vatican in this really incredible

1118
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:13,660
beautiful town which is on a volcano and

1119
00:51:17,700 --> 00:51:15,850
there was this volcanic lake and there's

1120
00:51:20,790 --> 00:51:17,710
this Observatory and telescope and

1121
00:51:23,130 --> 00:51:20,800
brother guy who I had known had invited

1122
00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:23,140
me to go and look at what they had their

1123
00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:26,050
archive there of Space Research and so

1124
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:27,690
there was a whole section on

1125
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:30,370
extraterrestrial research and so we

1126
00:51:35,310 --> 00:51:33,610
spent you know what five days or so just

1127
00:51:37,500 --> 00:51:35,320
like basically living in that archive

1128
00:51:40,770 --> 00:51:37,510
looking at every single thing I could

1129
00:51:44,130 --> 00:51:40,780
possibly look at I mean it was just I go

1130
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:44,140
back Tyler has already gone back and so

1131
00:51:50,490 --> 00:51:47,050
there was just a wealth of historical

1132
00:51:52,740 --> 00:51:50,500
information about aerial phenomena of

1133
00:51:54,900 --> 00:51:52,750
the past and it was there that I also

1134
00:51:58,970 --> 00:51:54,910
realized that one of the people that I

1135
00:52:04,320 --> 00:51:58,980
had that I was there to study who's a

1136
00:52:06,930 --> 00:52:04,330
Spanish nun Mary of Agreda from hundreds

1137
00:52:09,810 --> 00:52:06,940
of years ago she had actually was said

1138
00:52:11,790 --> 00:52:09,820
to have by located to New Mexico and it

1139
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:11,800
it struck me one day as I was in the

1140
00:52:16,470 --> 00:52:14,410
archive and I looked up that Tyler and I

1141
00:52:19,620 --> 00:52:16,480
looked at him and I said Mary of Agreda

1142
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:19,630
she went to this place and you met and

1143
00:52:24,750 --> 00:52:22,930
is this the place we went and he looked

1144
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:24,760
at me and I could tell by his face that

1145
00:52:27,510 --> 00:52:25,810
he wasn't gonna say anything because I'm

1146
00:52:30,420 --> 00:52:27,520
not supposed to know you know where we

1147
00:52:31,950 --> 00:52:30,430
went so I didn't push it but what a

1148
00:52:33,630 --> 00:52:31,960
weird coincidence that was and I

1149
00:52:35,610 --> 00:52:33,640
realized then that this was the neck

1150
00:52:37,980 --> 00:52:35,620
this was my last chapter to my book and

1151
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:37,990
so my book was already turned in so I

1152
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:40,690
had to emailed my editor and tell her

1153
00:52:46,350 --> 00:52:43,570
you know sorry as I said the picture of

1154
00:52:48,420 --> 00:52:46,360
brother guy you know and his telescope

1155
00:52:52,380 --> 00:52:48,430
and he said look look at how cool this

1156
00:52:57,690 --> 00:52:52,390
is and so she said yes so she almost

1157
00:52:58,200 --> 00:52:57,700
sounds like an ancient antenna what's

1158
00:52:59,940 --> 00:52:58,210
that

1159
00:53:06,630 --> 00:52:59,950
she almost sounds like she was an

1160
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:06,640
antenna how she was a pilot yes yes yes

1161
00:53:12,390 --> 00:53:09,610
so actually George Knapp kind of pointed

1162
00:53:14,970 --> 00:53:12,400
that out was that sounds like you know

1163
00:53:18,060 --> 00:53:14,980
he's talking about the biomarkers of the

1164
00:53:18,510 --> 00:53:18,070
people who can make contact you know and

1165
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:18,520
that mayor

1166
00:53:23,700 --> 00:53:20,530
Mary of Agreda may have had those or

1167
00:53:26,010 --> 00:53:23,710
something so I hadn't thought about that

1168
00:53:28,740 --> 00:53:26,020
but maybe that's what I was doing and so

1169
00:53:30,780 --> 00:53:28,750
a lot of time was I in my research what

1170
00:53:32,250 --> 00:53:30,790
I found with this book in particular was

1171
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:32,260
that I do it and I wouldn't know what I

1172
00:53:36,720 --> 00:53:33,970
was doing until about a month later and

1173
00:53:39,630 --> 00:53:36,730
I'd look back on it I'd say wow that's

1174
00:53:41,460 --> 00:53:39,640
what I did and that's why I did it so

1175
00:53:45,390 --> 00:53:41,470
that's really what it was like that trip

1176
00:53:47,550 --> 00:53:45,400
you know yeah and so before you mention

1177
00:53:49,710 --> 00:53:47,560
that you know some stuff was edited out

1178
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:49,720
of the book it's Oxford press so you

1179
00:53:57,510 --> 00:53:51,970
know that's an academic press they have

1180
00:53:59,400 --> 00:53:57,520
to you know make it an acceptable what

1181
00:54:04,650 --> 00:53:59,410
can can you talk about any of the stuff

1182
00:54:08,940 --> 00:54:04,660
that was edited out or completely taken

1183
00:54:12,510 --> 00:54:08,950
out or can you not comment on that okay

1184
00:54:15,390 --> 00:54:12,520
so some of the stuff I what I'm going to

1185
00:54:17,340 --> 00:54:15,400
do is there's an audio version of the

1186
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:17,350
book but it's not me speaking it's

1187
00:54:21,630 --> 00:54:19,810
someone else but what I decided I do and

1188
00:54:22,830 --> 00:54:21,640
I did get permission for my press to do

1189
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:22,840
that because you know they do own half

1190
00:54:31,650 --> 00:54:29,170
this book is I am going to like the

1191
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:31,660
preface the preface on my website is the

1192
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:34,650
full preface and it talks a lot about

1193
00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:37,570
the SR I you know the Stanford Research

1194
00:54:42,090 --> 00:54:40,690
Institute and bi and remote viewing and

1195
00:54:43,980 --> 00:54:42,100
stuff like that and that was taken out

1196
00:54:45,660 --> 00:54:43,990
of the preface that made it into the

1197
00:54:48,359 --> 00:54:45,670
book so what I'm going to do is I'm

1198
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:48,369
going to do an audio version of a lot of

1199
00:54:53,430 --> 00:54:50,410
the stuff and I'm going to post it

1200
00:54:55,170 --> 00:54:53,440
somewhere I'm not quite sure where I'm

1201
00:54:56,910 --> 00:54:55,180
gonna post it but I will post it and

1202
00:54:58,560 --> 00:54:56,920
people will have that they could have it

1203
00:55:01,740 --> 00:54:58,570
for free so I'm gonna I'm gonna make an

1204
00:55:04,109 --> 00:55:01,750
audio version and and that stuff yeah I

1205
00:55:06,570 --> 00:55:04,119
am I'm going to in fact even my Dean

1206
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:06,580
asked me he said can I have the edited I

1207
00:55:10,349 --> 00:55:08,530
mean the unedited version of your book

1208
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:10,359
it was really fun the director's cut

1209
00:55:17,460 --> 00:55:15,130
yeah yeah well you're more than welcome

1210
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:17,470
to hosted at the UFO news network

1211
00:55:26,190 --> 00:55:19,090
YouTube channel and we have no problems

1212
00:55:27,930 --> 00:55:26,200
with that right James so you're you're

1213
00:55:29,580 --> 00:55:27,940
writing the book and you would also

1214
00:55:31,700 --> 00:55:29,590
expressed a little bit of frustration

1215
00:55:35,990 --> 00:55:31,710
that there's some of the folks that you

1216
00:55:37,730 --> 00:55:36,000
in the book when they were showed I

1217
00:55:39,770 --> 00:55:37,740
guess the galleys the original version

1218
00:55:42,349 --> 00:55:39,780
they said well yeah I'm not exactly

1219
00:55:43,670 --> 00:55:42,359
comfortable with this phrasing or that

1220
00:55:45,470 --> 00:55:43,680
phrasing and you had to go back and make

1221
00:55:48,770 --> 00:55:45,480
some changes there as well is that about

1222
00:55:50,750 --> 00:55:48,780
right yes but that's okay I mean you

1223
00:55:54,290 --> 00:55:50,760
know I'm just grateful that the people

1224
00:55:55,940 --> 00:55:54,300
who agreed to be in the book are in the

1225
00:55:58,040 --> 00:55:55,950
book every single one of them is a

1226
00:56:01,099 --> 00:55:58,050
fascinating wonderful person who I've

1227
00:56:03,740 --> 00:56:01,109
learned a lot from so I just owe a debt

1228
00:56:05,540 --> 00:56:03,750
to these people I mean seriously I don't

1229
00:56:07,070 --> 00:56:05,550
James I think you have a copy a hard

1230
00:56:12,470 --> 00:56:07,080
copy of the book I don't even have a

1231
00:56:14,210 --> 00:56:12,480
copy of the book yet my hard copies you

1232
00:56:16,190 --> 00:56:14,220
know cuz I get a you know i get i don't

1233
00:56:18,470 --> 00:56:16,200
know like 15 or 20 i am going to send

1234
00:56:21,109 --> 00:56:18,480
them out to everybody in the book but i

1235
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:21,119
haven't even received them yet that's a

1236
00:56:30,230 --> 00:56:27,330
beautiful book it is beautiful nothing

1237
00:56:32,630 --> 00:56:30,240
but but great reviews from people in the

1238
00:56:34,609 --> 00:56:32,640
field that especially the p the

1239
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:34,619
hard-core researchers mostly the people

1240
00:56:38,750 --> 00:56:36,570
that are really really deep into it not

1241
00:56:40,579 --> 00:56:38,760
kind of like the surface people looking

1242
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:40,589
you're citing the people that are really

1243
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:42,810
deep into the actual phenomenon have

1244
00:56:48,490 --> 00:56:45,050
said excellent things about this book

1245
00:56:53,210 --> 00:56:48,500
wonderful I'm so happy

1246
00:56:54,770 --> 00:56:53,220
but what's talking about those the

1247
00:56:56,359 --> 00:56:54,780
invisible college or Fight Club I do I

1248
00:57:00,230 --> 00:56:56,369
do want to talk a little bit about that

1249
00:57:04,450 --> 00:57:00,240
but why why were you able to even

1250
00:57:06,950 --> 00:57:04,460
include Tyler and James in a book right

1251
00:57:08,390 --> 00:57:06,960
okay so this is a good question that's

1252
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:08,400
like you know you always have to ask

1253
00:57:21,500 --> 00:57:16,970
those questions Hodgins yeah okay so I

1254
00:57:23,839 --> 00:57:21,510
asked that question myself and I never

1255
00:57:28,970 --> 00:57:23,849
really got a satisfactory answer other

1256
00:57:35,150 --> 00:57:28,980
than that what's what's being said in

1257
00:57:39,079 --> 00:57:35,160
the book is entirely it in it should be

1258
00:57:42,109 --> 00:57:39,089
said okay so so I think that in one way

1259
00:57:44,650 --> 00:57:42,119
I listen I spent a lot of time on

1260
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:44,660
Jacques ballet here in this book

1261
00:57:51,190 --> 00:57:47,930
one of the reasons I do is because he

1262
00:57:54,309 --> 00:57:51,200
was on to the idea that the phenomena

1263
00:57:58,079 --> 00:57:54,319
functions like a technology and now that

1264
00:58:01,510 --> 00:57:58,089
we actually have more were more able to

1265
00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:01,520
use instruments that allow us to

1266
00:58:08,319 --> 00:58:04,970
identify how it's like a technology

1267
00:58:10,930 --> 00:58:08,329
we're actually able to flesh it out so I

1268
00:58:13,210 --> 00:58:10,940
I have Tyler and I have James and I have

1269
00:58:14,859 --> 00:58:13,220
some pretty dense scholarship chapters

1270
00:58:17,140 --> 00:58:14,869
in there that a lot of people are going

1271
00:58:19,569 --> 00:58:17,150
to hate I think if they're just you know

1272
00:58:22,529 --> 00:58:19,579
just this UFO book but I basically show

1273
00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:22,539
how human beings are now

1274
00:58:28,299 --> 00:58:25,730
cyborgs and awash with in this

1275
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:28,309
technology and that you know people like

1276
00:58:35,410 --> 00:58:32,210
Elon Musk who are saying you know super

1277
00:58:37,630 --> 00:58:35,420
intelligent digital technology is like

1278
00:58:40,690 --> 00:58:37,640
an alien I mean there's something there

1279
00:58:42,069 --> 00:58:40,700
that most people who study you know most

1280
00:58:43,690 --> 00:58:42,079
people who are looking for the little

1281
00:58:45,849 --> 00:58:43,700
green men or little greys or whatever

1282
00:58:48,010 --> 00:58:45,859
they're not getting this part and this

1283
00:58:50,380 --> 00:58:48,020
part is I think the most important if

1284
00:58:52,450 --> 00:58:50,390
there's going to be okay the classic

1285
00:58:55,059 --> 00:58:52,460
alien invasion how are they gonna do it

1286
00:58:56,620 --> 00:58:55,069
well the heck just like 2001 a Space

1287
00:58:58,299 --> 00:58:56,630
Odyssey it's gonna come through your

1288
00:59:04,359 --> 00:58:58,309
screen have you not noticed that the

1289
00:59:07,420 --> 00:59:04,369
monolith looks like the iPhone and you

1290
00:59:09,339 --> 00:59:07,430
know we carry around our iPhone it was

1291
00:59:14,410 --> 00:59:09,349
like it's an extension of ourselves and

1292
00:59:16,150 --> 00:59:14,420
why because it is yes our guide James I

1293
00:59:18,190 --> 00:59:16,160
was just gonna say you had a really

1294
00:59:20,349 --> 00:59:18,200
interesting quote right at the beginning

1295
00:59:22,779 --> 00:59:20,359
of the book by David Bowie

1296
00:59:25,630 --> 00:59:22,789
he says the Internet is an alien

1297
00:59:30,190 --> 00:59:25,640
life-form and you know that's both very

1298
00:59:32,079 --> 00:59:30,200
true in a sense and very scary yes and I

1299
00:59:34,599 --> 00:59:32,089
end the book in his with a scary quote

1300
00:59:37,510 --> 00:59:34,609
from Martin Heidegger so I actually came

1301
00:59:40,269 --> 00:59:37,520
across an interview with David Bowie the

1302
00:59:42,370 --> 00:59:40,279
other day where it's a full interview

1303
00:59:43,660 --> 00:59:42,380
the that quote comes from this energy

1304
00:59:45,039 --> 00:59:43,670
but I actually had never watched the

1305
00:59:47,049 --> 00:59:45,049
full interview so I watched the full

1306
00:59:48,700 --> 00:59:47,059
interview and again I was like you know

1307
00:59:51,039 --> 00:59:48,710
David Bowie's brilliant of course he's

1308
00:59:53,019 --> 00:59:51,049
brilliant you know but every time I

1309
00:59:54,670 --> 00:59:53,029
listen to him I'm just amazed at how

1310
00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:54,680
brilliant he really is

1311
00:59:58,740 --> 00:59:56,930
so you know here we have Elon Musk who

1312
01:00:01,620 --> 00:59:58,750
is brilliant basically saying this

1313
01:00:04,109 --> 01:00:01,630
but huh David Bowie said it like 25

1314
01:00:06,300 --> 01:00:04,119
years ago he said the same thing and he

1315
01:00:09,540 --> 01:00:06,310
was basically saying the interviewer

1316
01:00:11,760 --> 01:00:09,550
asked him well do you think that you

1317
01:00:13,410 --> 01:00:11,770
know we use technology how how do we use

1318
01:00:16,980 --> 01:00:13,420
technology and David Boies stalked him

1319
01:00:19,950 --> 01:00:16,990
and said hey we don't use technology you

1320
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:19,960
know we think we use technology but we

1321
01:00:27,060 --> 01:00:23,770
exist in a symbiotic relationship with

1322
01:00:28,650 --> 01:00:27,070
technology now I'm going to jump in and

1323
01:00:31,940 --> 01:00:28,660
ask you to speculate a little bit you

1324
01:00:36,330 --> 01:00:31,950
were talking about technology and the

1325
01:00:38,430 --> 01:00:36,340
relationship with that and these the

1326
01:00:40,710 --> 01:00:38,440
phenomenons do you think these

1327
01:00:44,580 --> 01:00:40,720
experiencers who are describing fairly

1328
01:00:46,740 --> 01:00:44,590
vivid experiences contact whatever the

1329
01:00:49,740 --> 01:00:46,750
case may be do you think those people

1330
01:00:52,500 --> 01:00:49,750
are just actually experiencing a virtual

1331
01:00:54,270 --> 01:00:52,510
reality experience as compared to having

1332
01:00:55,890 --> 01:00:54,280
a sort of having the goggles on and

1333
01:00:59,630 --> 01:00:55,900
skiing down the mountain as compared

1334
01:01:05,609 --> 01:01:03,599
right so there there are so many

1335
01:01:09,690 --> 01:01:05,619
different ways that people experience

1336
01:01:13,859 --> 01:01:09,700
the phenomena but one way that you know

1337
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:13,869
like Christopher Bledsoe who doesn't you

1338
01:01:18,870 --> 01:01:17,170
know didn't under you know when I I

1339
01:01:21,540 --> 01:01:18,880
never actually talked to him about this

1340
01:01:25,530 --> 01:01:21,550
David Bowie type idea and he said to me

1341
01:01:26,849 --> 01:01:25,540
well that they looked like technology

1342
01:01:29,220 --> 01:01:26,859
they look you know whatever they were

1343
01:01:30,510 --> 01:01:29,230
they they didn't look like humans they

1344
01:01:32,370 --> 01:01:30,520
looked human-like but they looked like

1345
01:01:33,150 --> 01:01:32,380
technology and I was thought that was

1346
01:01:37,410 --> 01:01:33,160
really interesting

1347
01:01:39,810 --> 01:01:37,420
oops ooh hey looks like we clicked out

1348
01:01:41,339 --> 01:01:39,820
but we got clicked back in yeah now yeah

1349
01:01:48,900 --> 01:01:41,349
you you came through loud and clear we

1350
01:01:51,089 --> 01:01:48,910
didn't lose you okay so so I'm sorry

1351
01:01:55,980 --> 01:01:51,099
Frank I think that's did I answer your

1352
01:01:58,320 --> 01:01:55,990
question yeah yeah yeah I know I was

1353
01:02:02,910 --> 01:01:58,330
asking you to speculate I know that gets

1354
01:02:05,070 --> 01:02:02,920
a little hairy so Joseph burps like his

1355
01:02:08,490 --> 01:02:05,080
ideas yeah yeah Joseph burst is

1356
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:08,500
fascinating I was I had interviewed him

1357
01:02:12,229 --> 01:02:11,530
a few times because he has a lot of very

1358
01:02:15,229 --> 01:02:12,239
very interest

1359
01:02:16,759 --> 01:02:15,239
seeing ideas about you know when people

1360
01:02:19,369 --> 01:02:16,769
experience these things what are they

1361
01:02:21,889 --> 01:02:19,379
experiencing and I think people who are

1362
01:02:23,389 --> 01:02:21,899
interested in phenomena I don't know if

1363
01:02:26,109 --> 01:02:23,399
he's written a book but he should write

1364
01:02:30,319 --> 01:02:26,119
a book just to get those ideas out there

1365
01:02:35,209 --> 01:02:30,329
yeah you know I keep harassing him about

1366
01:02:39,009 --> 01:02:35,219
that he said he's written a books worth

1367
01:02:42,319 --> 01:02:39,019
of polemic so that's for sure oh yeah

1368
01:02:44,809 --> 01:02:42,329
yeah the virtual the virtual experience

1369
01:02:48,439 --> 01:02:44,819
model and it goes through different

1370
01:02:50,929 --> 01:02:48,449
levels of basically the phenomenon of

1371
01:02:54,229 --> 01:02:50,939
being able to could produce virtual

1372
01:02:58,309 --> 01:02:54,239
different levels of virtual experiences

1373
01:03:00,709 --> 01:02:58,319
and realities for the experience or that

1374
01:03:02,329 --> 01:03:00,719
is so advanced that it's controlled to

1375
01:03:05,289 --> 01:03:02,339
where it can have two people next to

1376
01:03:07,609 --> 01:03:05,299
each other and one person is having this

1377
01:03:09,019 --> 01:03:07,619
amazing experience and seeing these

1378
01:03:10,789 --> 01:03:09,029
things and getting the telepathic

1379
01:03:14,599 --> 01:03:10,799
messages downloads the person next to

1380
01:03:20,869 --> 01:03:14,609
them doesn't see or experience the same

1381
01:03:25,309 --> 01:03:20,879
thing but he you know he also talks

1382
01:03:27,199 --> 01:03:25,319
about how there's a story when an

1383
01:03:29,569 --> 01:03:27,209
experience or basically told the

1384
01:03:31,939 --> 01:03:29,579
phenomenon show show dr. Burks and and

1385
01:03:35,149 --> 01:03:31,949
he was shown directly after you know

1386
01:03:38,899 --> 01:03:35,159
some of the phenomenon but you know some

1387
01:03:40,489 --> 01:03:38,909
some things is is uh I don't necessarily

1388
01:03:41,839 --> 01:03:40,499
agree that it's a complete virtual

1389
01:03:44,869 --> 01:03:41,849
reality because again you have these

1390
01:03:47,659 --> 01:03:44,879
artifacts and those are reality they're

1391
01:03:50,449 --> 01:03:47,669
real whether they're manufactured for a

1392
01:03:52,459 --> 01:03:50,459
reason or their donations as I think

1393
01:03:54,979 --> 01:03:52,469
James says in the book or if they're

1394
01:03:57,409 --> 01:03:54,989
from some kind of crash but there there

1395
01:03:58,549 --> 01:03:57,419
is a physical component to the

1396
01:04:01,149 --> 01:03:58,559
phenomenon as well

1397
01:04:06,859 --> 01:04:01,159
I'm radar of course a radar station

1398
01:04:09,189 --> 01:04:06,869
radar and so I think is probably a part

1399
01:04:11,929 --> 01:04:09,199
of it but I don't think that the entire

1400
01:04:14,809 --> 01:04:11,939
experiences of virtual reality I mean

1401
01:04:16,489 --> 01:04:14,819
unless unless you want to get into the

1402
01:04:22,189 --> 01:04:16,499
idea that our entire reality is a

1403
01:04:23,599 --> 01:04:22,199
simulation which you do kind of address

1404
01:04:24,859 --> 01:04:23,609
that in the book which is absolutely

1405
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:24,869
fascinating because that's something

1406
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:27,450
that'll it'll keep

1407
01:04:34,670 --> 01:04:31,650
but talking about the book you know you

1408
01:04:38,540 --> 01:04:34,680
go further into the book you talk about

1409
01:04:40,340 --> 01:04:38,550
a really you know interesting concept

1410
01:04:42,590 --> 01:04:40,350
which people might not necessarily at

1411
01:04:44,450 --> 01:04:42,600
the beginning think is related but it's

1412
01:04:46,310 --> 01:04:44,460
it's completely related especially when

1413
01:04:51,470 --> 01:04:46,320
you talk about technology and belief is

1414
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:51,480
the specialist factual right yeah yeah

1415
01:04:57,020 --> 01:04:55,290
that's really I mean this is this is

1416
01:04:59,420 --> 01:04:57,030
like I said the world in which we live

1417
01:05:02,060 --> 01:04:59,430
now and there's a new genre of

1418
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:02,070
production for TV and film and it's

1419
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:04,890
called specialist factual and anybody

1420
01:05:10,820 --> 01:05:07,770
can look it up and what it is and by the

1421
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:10,830
way it's a little eerie that philip k

1422
01:05:17,450 --> 01:05:13,770
dick the science fiction writer wrote we

1423
01:05:19,490 --> 01:05:17,460
can we can make it for you wholesale or

1424
01:05:21,500 --> 01:05:19,500
something or we can remember it for you

1425
01:05:23,360 --> 01:05:21,510
wholesale and it's basically a short

1426
01:05:30,830 --> 01:05:23,370
story that got turned into Total Recall

1427
01:05:32,870 --> 01:05:30,840
and yeah the company that he at Total

1428
01:05:34,550 --> 01:05:32,880
Recall that created these false memories

1429
01:05:36,130 --> 01:05:34,560
and implanted them as vacations in

1430
01:05:38,990 --> 01:05:36,140
people's heads but it was actually an

1431
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:39,000
Intel agents like that in it and this

1432
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:42,570
actually tricks our brains so this this

1433
01:05:46,100 --> 01:05:44,490
researcher named Jeffrey Sachs he's a

1434
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:46,110
neuroscientist he's written a book

1435
01:05:51,410 --> 01:05:49,410
called your brain on film and he

1436
01:05:53,690 --> 01:05:51,420
basically talks about how this type of

1437
01:05:55,340 --> 01:05:53,700
media and I actually saw this when I was

1438
01:05:57,920 --> 01:05:55,350
doing when I was helping with conjuring

1439
01:05:59,750 --> 01:05:57,930
the conjuring one I saw how they edit

1440
01:06:02,780 --> 01:05:59,760
you know how they edited the scenes in

1441
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:02,790
the last part and and then it's done in

1442
01:06:08,690 --> 01:06:04,770
Hollywood so they take audiences and

1443
01:06:11,510 --> 01:06:08,700
they they hook them up to people they

1444
01:06:13,610 --> 01:06:11,520
hook up people to these machines that

1445
01:06:16,220 --> 01:06:13,620
allow them to know which parts of their

1446
01:06:18,590 --> 01:06:16,230
brains are being lit up and so they take

1447
01:06:20,870 --> 01:06:18,600
those scenes that are ultra stimulating

1448
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:20,880
almost like when you you you know eat

1449
01:06:24,710 --> 01:06:22,530
something you like a chocolate something

1450
01:06:25,610 --> 01:06:24,720
that you really really enjoy so when we

1451
01:06:28,010 --> 01:06:25,620
watch these movies

1452
01:06:30,530 --> 01:06:28,020
our brains are lighting up now we say

1453
01:06:33,260 --> 01:06:30,540
that you know oh I'm going to this movie

1454
01:06:35,090 --> 01:06:33,270
and this movie I know is not true we say

1455
01:06:36,500 --> 01:06:35,100
that with one part of our brain which is

1456
01:06:38,900 --> 01:06:36,510
called the rational part of our brain

1457
01:06:39,590 --> 01:06:38,910
but there are other parts of our brain

1458
01:06:42,050 --> 01:06:39,600
that believe

1459
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:42,060
to be true and so you know those are the

1460
01:06:45,440 --> 01:06:43,890
parts that make a screening and you know

1461
01:06:48,380 --> 01:06:45,450
those are the parts that you know so our

1462
01:06:50,930 --> 01:06:48,390
brains are much more complicated than we

1463
01:06:54,800 --> 01:06:50,940
give them credit to be and so this type

1464
01:06:56,540 --> 01:06:54,810
of genre the extra factual honoree I

1465
01:06:59,870 --> 01:06:56,550
mean I talked about it because our whole

1466
01:07:02,270 --> 01:06:59,880
idea of the UFO is based on what he you

1467
01:07:05,780 --> 01:07:02,280
know what what media companies tell us

1468
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:05,790
it looks like right yeah I mean it's all

1469
01:07:10,220 --> 01:07:07,770
over and and what we were talking about

1470
01:07:11,860 --> 01:07:10,230
before is people from my generation we

1471
01:07:14,570 --> 01:07:11,870
don't even question the reality of

1472
01:07:17,360 --> 01:07:14,580
extraterrestrial life you know we grew

1473
01:07:20,300 --> 01:07:17,370
up with you know et the

1474
01:07:22,580 --> 01:07:20,310
extra-terrestrial and and I mean if you

1475
01:07:24,170 --> 01:07:22,590
look at the cartoons these kid car turns

1476
01:07:28,160 --> 01:07:24,180
you know for like little kids it's all

1477
01:07:31,010 --> 01:07:28,170
over the place exactly yes so it's it's

1478
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:31,020
not even like a taboo in that sense

1479
01:07:38,540 --> 01:07:34,250
people in my generations that given

1480
01:07:40,370 --> 01:07:38,550
given right but you know something even

1481
01:07:42,610 --> 01:07:40,380
deeper now that you mention it talking

1482
01:07:46,730 --> 01:07:42,620
about special factual and this kind of

1483
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:46,740
engineered reality is a question would

1484
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:49,770
be like I'm imagining on on is doing a

1485
01:07:56,570 --> 01:07:54,450
special special on us yeah I think David

1486
01:08:02,750 --> 01:07:56,580
Bowie was trying to get there you know

1487
01:08:10,610 --> 01:08:02,760
yeah but getting getting back to Fight

1488
01:08:13,130 --> 01:08:10,620
Club two things about the Invisibles one

1489
01:08:17,900 --> 01:08:13,140
you know why why is it important that

1490
01:08:20,150 --> 01:08:17,910
they remain invisible okay so this was

1491
01:08:22,010 --> 01:08:20,160
explained to me by an invisible and it

1492
01:08:22,610 --> 01:08:22,020
was this how do you think we'd get this

1493
01:08:27,470 --> 01:08:22,620
work done

1494
01:08:29,090 --> 01:08:27,480
if people but we were doing yeah people

1495
01:08:31,570 --> 01:08:29,100
like us would be ask him to come on our

1496
01:08:33,950 --> 01:08:31,580
podcast all the time that's right yeah

1497
01:08:35,900 --> 01:08:33,960
yes I've been doing this I've been

1498
01:08:38,170 --> 01:08:35,910
getting a ton of emails that basically

1499
01:08:41,540 --> 01:08:38,180
say can you introduce me to Tyler oh

1500
01:08:50,390 --> 01:08:41,550
sure so I you know I'm not I'm not even

1501
01:08:53,629 --> 01:08:50,400
answering that those emails anymore the

1502
01:08:57,499 --> 01:08:56,090
you know what kind of scope were we

1503
01:09:00,740 --> 01:08:57,509
talking to here

1504
01:09:03,740 --> 01:09:00,750
you know we kinda know that they're some

1505
01:09:07,039 --> 01:09:03,750
of them are scientists but what's what's

1506
01:09:13,010 --> 01:09:07,049
the the spectrum of that of their fields

1507
01:09:16,189 --> 01:09:13,020
of work and prestige okay so my okay so

1508
01:09:17,749 --> 01:09:16,199
I've got to take okay this would get

1509
01:09:21,070 --> 01:09:17,759
this is something that I'm going to

1510
01:09:23,809 --> 01:09:21,080
distance myself from my my press my

1511
01:09:25,519 --> 01:09:23,819
academic press and also from my

1512
01:09:28,490 --> 01:09:25,529
University and this is just my personal

1513
01:09:31,160 --> 01:09:28,500
opinion okay so I'm not I'm not talking

1514
01:09:33,769 --> 01:09:31,170
as an academic and I'm not talking as a

1515
01:09:36,849 --> 01:09:33,779
professor at my university I'm talking

1516
01:09:39,320 --> 01:09:36,859
just as a person who's speculating okay

1517
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:39,330
this latest research out there that

1518
01:09:45,320 --> 01:09:42,210
James you wrote about you know you know

1519
01:09:48,140 --> 01:09:45,330
that okay that part of the brain it

1520
01:09:52,039 --> 01:09:48,150
appears to me that these Invisibles

1521
01:09:55,030 --> 01:09:52,049
might be people that are super intuitive

1522
01:09:57,800 --> 01:09:55,040
and therefore they're receiving

1523
01:09:59,570 --> 01:09:57,810
information that most people don't

1524
01:10:01,280 --> 01:09:59,580
receive and they act on it and therefore

1525
01:10:04,430 --> 01:10:01,290
they're super high functioning people

1526
01:10:07,550 --> 01:10:04,440
and that these people can listen these

1527
01:10:09,140 --> 01:10:07,560
people I know for a fact because in my

1528
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:09,150
at my university we have a lot of

1529
01:10:13,370 --> 01:10:11,610
veterans and that a lot of times these

1530
01:10:15,260 --> 01:10:13,380
veterans come through sail through my

1531
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:15,270
program get into places like Harvard and

1532
01:10:19,729 --> 01:10:17,250
stuff like that and these people have

1533
01:10:21,530 --> 01:10:19,739
been identified by the military is

1534
01:10:23,120 --> 01:10:21,540
having what the military calls a sixth

1535
01:10:25,550 --> 01:10:23,130
sense they don't know what to call it

1536
01:10:27,860 --> 01:10:25,560
but they know that these people exist

1537
01:10:32,060 --> 01:10:27,870
and so they kind of promote them and so

1538
01:10:33,290 --> 01:10:32,070
these people might be partly some of the

1539
01:10:38,510 --> 01:10:33,300
Invisibles that's my own personal

1540
01:10:40,580 --> 01:10:38,520
opinion yeah and you know I don't know

1541
01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:40,590
how far you can go into this but you

1542
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:43,290
know say the the group of Invisibles

1543
01:10:49,550 --> 01:10:47,610
what kind of questions are they asking

1544
01:10:52,459 --> 01:10:49,560
and what do you think some of the things

1545
01:10:54,590 --> 01:10:52,469
they speculate about okay so what I

1546
01:10:56,180 --> 01:10:54,600
found was that especially with respect

1547
01:10:58,129 --> 01:10:56,190
to the invisible I talked about who's

1548
01:11:00,530 --> 01:10:58,139
Tyler in my book is that these people

1549
01:11:04,850 --> 01:11:00,540
live very lonely existences there are

1550
01:11:06,949 --> 01:11:04,860
tragic in a way because first off they

1551
01:11:09,529 --> 01:11:06,959
say okay James

1552
01:11:13,310 --> 01:11:09,539
say you had this quality but you didn't

1553
01:11:14,479 --> 01:11:13,320
have that research to tell you what what

1554
01:11:16,899 --> 01:11:14,489
why you're different

1555
01:11:22,189 --> 01:11:16,909
do you know how weird that would be I

1556
01:11:23,839 --> 01:11:22,199
can imagine that's really weird so a lot

1557
01:11:25,729 --> 01:11:23,849
of times those people they go through

1558
01:11:27,350 --> 01:11:25,739
their lives they don't understand they

1559
01:11:29,390 --> 01:11:27,360
don't think they're particularly spark

1560
01:11:31,339 --> 01:11:29,400
and they end up in these situations they

1561
01:11:33,319 --> 01:11:31,349
know exactly what they do but they don't

1562
01:11:37,250 --> 01:11:33,329
know why they know I mean think of how

1563
01:11:41,479 --> 01:11:37,260
weird that would be yeah that's why I

1564
01:11:43,759 --> 01:11:41,489
thought I conveyed somewhat tragedy of

1565
01:11:46,009 --> 01:11:43,769
the of you know I mean yeah it would be

1566
01:11:48,979 --> 01:11:46,019
super cool to be one of these people but

1567
01:11:51,020 --> 01:11:48,989
it's all weird to be one of those people

1568
01:11:53,810 --> 01:11:51,030
because they don't they're on a quest to

1569
01:11:55,189 --> 01:11:53,820
understand what they are even yeah and I

1570
01:12:01,219 --> 01:11:55,199
mean how do you explain that to anybody

1571
01:12:03,500 --> 01:12:01,229
it's you can yeah you can try and you

1572
01:12:05,719 --> 01:12:03,510
know even even no matter how credible

1573
01:12:09,199 --> 01:12:05,729
and solid down-to-earth and grounded you

1574
01:12:10,459 --> 01:12:09,209
are you tell a close family member about

1575
01:12:11,149 --> 01:12:10,469
that and if they haven't seen it

1576
01:12:12,919 --> 01:12:11,159
themselves

1577
01:12:14,299 --> 01:12:12,929
you know even a very close friend or

1578
01:12:16,339 --> 01:12:14,309
best friend that sees you as highly

1579
01:12:18,439 --> 01:12:16,349
intelligent incredible you start telling

1580
01:12:21,770 --> 01:12:18,449
them about that and you see their eyes

1581
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:21,780
wondering like is this person they you

1582
01:12:29,199 --> 01:12:25,530
know they're probably theirs it just it

1583
01:12:32,989 --> 01:12:29,209
cracks their reality yes and they push

1584
01:12:35,029 --> 01:12:32,999
yeah they don't know how to do to take

1585
01:12:37,580 --> 01:12:35,039
that information and what to do with it

1586
01:12:40,209 --> 01:12:37,590
so they you know there's like a defense

1587
01:12:44,719 --> 01:12:40,219
mechanism that goes all off and they

1588
01:12:50,989 --> 01:12:44,729
they just to dis identify with what

1589
01:12:55,100 --> 01:12:50,999
you're saying yeah but so you know you

1590
01:12:58,219 --> 01:12:55,110
you were studying these kind of things

1591
01:13:01,549 --> 01:12:58,229
and Catholicism where these Saints were

1592
01:13:03,830 --> 01:13:01,559
having experiences which if you know a

1593
01:13:06,439 --> 01:13:03,840
UFO researcher looked at it they would

1594
01:13:10,270 --> 01:13:06,449
look at it as like a UFO experience a

1595
01:13:12,350 --> 01:13:10,280
contact experience how did you go from

1596
01:13:16,939 --> 01:13:12,360
looking at those kind of religious

1597
01:13:19,850 --> 01:13:16,949
experiences about you know these saints

1598
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:19,860
being visited to kind of like the the

1599
01:13:24,890 --> 01:13:20,850
modern thing

1600
01:13:26,810 --> 01:13:24,900
with orbs and modern visitations and

1601
01:13:30,260 --> 01:13:26,820
what we would interpret as ufos or

1602
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:30,270
extraterrestrial or the phenomenon yes

1603
01:13:34,790 --> 01:13:32,730
good idea okay good question so I've

1604
01:13:39,410 --> 01:13:34,800
actually written an article about this

1605
01:13:43,700 --> 01:13:39,420
and it's it's free for anyone who wants

1606
01:13:48,350 --> 01:13:43,710
to go online it on academia.edu and it

1607
01:13:50,960 --> 01:13:48,360
basically takes teresa of avila

1608
01:13:54,140 --> 01:13:50,970
and it you know she's the one who has

1609
01:13:57,470 --> 01:13:54,150
this ecstatic experience represented by

1610
01:13:59,990 --> 01:13:57,480
Bernini the artist in a statue in Rome

1611
01:14:02,360 --> 01:14:00,000
called the ecstasy of Saint Teresa and

1612
01:14:04,070 --> 01:14:02,370
so she actually describes that

1613
01:14:07,030 --> 01:14:04,080
experience which looks by the way

1614
01:14:10,150 --> 01:14:07,040
nothing like what this sculpture shows

1615
01:14:15,740 --> 01:14:10,160
she describes it in her autobiography

1616
01:14:18,860 --> 01:14:15,750
and so I I take her I do an analysis and

1617
01:14:21,770 --> 01:14:18,870
I I take her experience and I take

1618
01:14:24,080 --> 01:14:21,780
Carlos Edward Carlos's experience and

1619
01:14:27,320 --> 01:14:24,090
he's somebody who has a chapter in John

1620
01:14:31,070 --> 01:14:27,330
Mack's giant New York Times best-selling

1621
01:14:35,680 --> 01:14:31,080
book abduction human encounters with

1622
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:35,690
aliens and Carlos and she have a very

1623
01:14:42,590 --> 01:14:38,730
very similar experience and so what I do

1624
01:14:44,480 --> 01:14:42,600
is I say as an academic a responsible

1625
01:14:46,430 --> 01:14:44,490
person can we be and you know these are

1626
01:14:49,730 --> 01:14:46,440
two people from totally different time

1627
01:14:52,190 --> 01:14:49,740
periods totally different cultures can

1628
01:14:54,080 --> 01:14:52,200
we say that there are you know these are

1629
01:14:57,410 --> 01:14:54,090
the same experience can we say that and

1630
01:15:01,910 --> 01:14:57,420
well no we can't say that but what we

1631
01:15:03,890 --> 01:15:01,920
can see is the processes in which once

1632
01:15:06,350 --> 01:15:03,900
these people have these experiences

1633
01:15:09,530 --> 01:15:06,360
their experiences then get filtered

1634
01:15:12,080 --> 01:15:09,540
through different types of media in her

1635
01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:12,090
day it wasn't the type of media we have

1636
01:15:15,650 --> 01:15:13,770
today but you know like what happened to

1637
01:15:17,240 --> 01:15:15,660
Carlos was he had these experiences and

1638
01:15:19,850 --> 01:15:17,250
he thought they were somewhat angelic

1639
01:15:23,420 --> 01:15:19,860
experiences but then John Mac called

1640
01:15:26,030 --> 01:15:23,430
them abductions and he had a huge you

1641
01:15:28,580 --> 01:15:26,040
know Carlos had a huge problem with that

1642
01:15:30,950 --> 01:15:28,590
and so he he was actually a professor of

1643
01:15:33,230 --> 01:15:30,960
art and so he would fight John Mac and

1644
01:15:34,140 --> 01:15:33,240
he said no you can't call it that so you

1645
01:15:36,720 --> 01:15:34,150
have often

1646
01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:36,730
what we call things and then what you

1647
01:15:40,140 --> 01:15:38,290
know a book that comes out that makes in

1648
01:15:42,540 --> 01:15:40,150
York Times bestselling list that's going

1649
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:42,550
to define this experience for everyone

1650
01:15:46,950 --> 01:15:43,930
then you know whereas the actual

1651
01:15:52,850 --> 01:15:46,960
experiencer says it wasn't in any way an

1652
01:15:57,030 --> 01:15:55,320
ya exactly so these are the kinds of

1653
01:16:00,900 --> 01:15:57,040
things that these experiences go through

1654
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:00,910
I think that I mean I personally think

1655
01:16:05,730 --> 01:16:03,370
that people are going to be still I mean

1656
01:16:07,920 --> 01:16:05,740
the reason I started to study this was I

1657
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:07,930
realized that the things I studying in

1658
01:16:11,160 --> 01:16:09,250
the past are still happening to people

1659
01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:11,170
people are still having very profound

1660
01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:13,090
experiences with things that come down

1661
01:16:30,660 --> 01:16:16,930
from the sky I or you know whatever you

1662
01:16:35,940 --> 01:16:30,670
want to call them yeah yeah also the the

1663
01:16:37,650 --> 01:16:35,950
Fight Club what's their importance going

1664
01:16:42,600 --> 01:16:37,660
forward in the involvement with these

1665
01:16:45,210 --> 01:16:42,610
these kind of issues okay so when when

1666
01:16:46,890 --> 01:16:45,220
Jacques wrote in the 1970s he wrote a

1667
01:16:49,080 --> 01:16:46,900
book called the invisible college and

1668
01:16:51,060 --> 01:16:49,090
the invisible college I think it was

1669
01:16:53,700 --> 01:16:51,070
Hynek Allen Hynek who actually coined

1670
01:16:57,480 --> 01:16:53,710
that phrase but it comes from a very old

1671
01:16:59,160 --> 01:16:57,490
college I think Francis Bacon I could be

1672
01:17:02,490 --> 01:16:59,170
wrong there but but someone from that

1673
01:17:03,660 --> 01:17:02,500
early modern period the expression goes

1674
01:17:07,020 --> 01:17:03,670
back aways yep

1675
01:17:09,750 --> 01:17:07,030
yeah so basically it was scientists who

1676
01:17:12,150 --> 01:17:09,760
back in the day if they did really you

1677
01:17:13,890 --> 01:17:12,160
know paradigm-shifting science they

1678
01:17:16,290 --> 01:17:13,900
would have had their heads cut off okay

1679
01:17:18,030 --> 01:17:16,300
so basically what jock and Hynek were

1680
01:17:20,370 --> 01:17:18,040
basically suggesting with the term the

1681
01:17:22,230 --> 01:17:20,380
invisible college is that you've got to

1682
01:17:24,390 --> 01:17:22,240
do this science but you've got to do it

1683
01:17:25,740 --> 01:17:24,400
in secret it's got to be something that

1684
01:17:29,460 --> 01:17:25,750
you don't because you could ruin your

1685
01:17:31,200 --> 01:17:29,470
career like John Mac right okay so so

1686
01:17:33,150 --> 01:17:31,210
they called it the invisible college by

1687
01:17:34,920 --> 01:17:33,160
the time and by the way this was at the

1688
01:17:36,180 --> 01:17:34,930
end of the car ride when in the

1689
01:17:38,700 --> 01:17:36,190
beginning of the book in the preface

1690
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:38,710
Jacques gives me this book right and he

1691
01:17:44,700 --> 01:17:41,290
goes read this and I'm like okay so I

1692
01:17:46,560 --> 01:17:44,710
read it and I realized later in my

1693
01:17:48,260 --> 01:17:46,570
research that the invisible college has

1694
01:17:52,070 --> 01:17:48,270
actually turned into fight

1695
01:17:54,890 --> 01:17:52,080
so Fight Club which was a movie from the

1696
01:17:58,760 --> 01:17:54,900
1990s in which there's this guy who's

1697
01:18:01,970 --> 01:17:58,770
actually invisible know it right and so

1698
01:18:04,580 --> 01:18:01,980
he but the rule of this Fight Club which

1699
01:18:06,020 --> 01:18:04,590
is a bunch of people like who band

1700
01:18:08,300 --> 01:18:06,030
together and they're all over the United

1701
01:18:11,210 --> 01:18:08,310
States they don't talk about what they

1702
01:18:14,390 --> 01:18:11,220
do and so what I found was that these

1703
01:18:17,810 --> 01:18:14,400
researchers their code was the exact

1704
01:18:19,520 --> 01:18:17,820
opposite of the code that academics have

1705
01:18:21,290 --> 01:18:19,530
which is what you know you talk about

1706
01:18:23,600 --> 01:18:21,300
what you do well they don't talk about

1707
01:18:25,220 --> 01:18:23,610
it then they can't talk about it if they

1708
01:18:26,750 --> 01:18:25,230
talk about it they lose their jobs so

1709
01:18:28,760 --> 01:18:26,760
they don't talk about it so that's why I

1710
01:18:31,160 --> 01:18:28,770
called it the Fight Club instead of the

1711
01:18:33,140 --> 01:18:31,170
invisible college real quick let me ask

1712
01:18:35,030 --> 01:18:33,150
you the UFO subject has gotten

1713
01:18:37,490 --> 01:18:35,040
heightened attention over the last year

1714
01:18:39,140 --> 01:18:37,500
or so for all sorts of reasons some

1715
01:18:41,120 --> 01:18:39,150
academics are coming out and not talking

1716
01:18:45,200 --> 01:18:41,130
about a little bit more openly even some

1717
01:18:48,350 --> 01:18:45,210
physical scientists and what is the the

1718
01:18:50,540 --> 01:18:48,360
opinion from The Fight Club as far as

1719
01:18:52,430 --> 01:18:50,550
all that goes to the are they going to

1720
01:18:54,260 --> 01:18:52,440
have to make some adjustments to conceal

1721
01:18:56,330 --> 01:18:54,270
their identities a little bit more

1722
01:18:58,430 --> 01:18:56,340
thoroughly are they making any plans

1723
01:19:03,740 --> 01:18:58,440
what are they doing about all this and

1724
01:19:06,790 --> 01:19:03,750
what do they think about it okay so for

1725
01:19:09,680 --> 01:19:06,800
some of the Invisibles that's the plan

1726
01:19:15,500 --> 01:19:09,690
it's all going as it's supposed to go

1727
01:19:19,010 --> 01:19:15,510
okay okay you know we have a tip coming

1728
01:19:20,900 --> 01:19:19,020
out and that whole kind of thing do they

1729
01:19:24,290 --> 01:19:20,910
see this information coming out to the

1730
01:19:26,000 --> 01:19:24,300
public is a good thing yeah the reason

1731
01:19:27,620 --> 01:19:26,010
they see it as a good thing is because

1732
01:19:29,390 --> 01:19:27,630
you know they believe in it they believe

1733
01:19:31,010 --> 01:19:29,400
this is the case they want the people to

1734
01:19:33,800 --> 01:19:31,020
know they don't want to shock them too

1735
01:19:36,110 --> 01:19:33,810
much and they realize that some of them

1736
01:19:38,200 --> 01:19:36,120
might get outed that some folks might

1737
01:19:45,500 --> 01:19:38,210
figure out who some of these people are

1738
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:45,510
they might realize that yeah now James

1739
01:19:51,320 --> 01:19:47,850
put together one meme from your book

1740
01:19:53,420 --> 01:19:51,330
related to Tyler's protocol where he's a

1741
01:19:55,610 --> 01:19:53,430
though there might be some folks at home

1742
01:19:57,320 --> 01:19:55,620
who get interested in this to the point

1743
01:19:58,490 --> 01:19:57,330
where they might want to try a little

1744
01:19:59,900 --> 01:19:58,500
bit themselves they might be in a

1745
01:20:01,560 --> 01:19:59,910
creative field where they're looking for

1746
01:20:04,830 --> 01:20:01,570
ideas that type of thing

1747
01:20:07,500 --> 01:20:04,840
and he talks about let's see tuning the

1748
01:20:10,290 --> 01:20:07,510
body and the DNA getting a good night's

1749
01:20:20,910 --> 01:20:10,300
sleep alcohol consumption zero coffee

1750
01:20:23,310 --> 01:20:20,920
which I don't know about that but okay

1751
01:20:25,319 --> 01:20:23,320
so this is interesting so in about two

1752
01:20:28,290 --> 01:20:25,329
thirty you know dudes here I am at two

1753
01:20:31,080 --> 01:20:28,300
to twelve I take on the study then I

1754
01:20:35,250 --> 01:20:31,090
recognize in almost two fourteen that

1755
01:20:38,640 --> 01:20:35,260
you know 2014 that almost all of the

1756
01:20:41,430 --> 01:20:38,650
very very successful biotechnologists

1757
01:20:43,620 --> 01:20:41,440
and invisibles that I meet like super

1758
01:20:46,709 --> 01:20:43,630
successful people are all doing this

1759
01:20:49,080 --> 01:20:46,719
protocol and so I think to myself you

1760
01:20:50,640 --> 01:20:49,090
know I've got five kids you know that

1761
01:20:52,760 --> 01:20:50,650
many years ago they were really young

1762
01:20:56,189 --> 01:20:52,770
they were like James they were like your

1763
01:20:59,430 --> 01:20:56,199
kids ages right so like I'm going crazy

1764
01:21:02,609 --> 01:20:59,440
you know I'm like you know I'm a mom I'm

1765
01:21:06,540 --> 01:21:02,619
like dude writing these books and I'm

1766
01:21:09,600 --> 01:21:06,550
frazzled myself you know what I think

1767
01:21:11,609 --> 01:21:09,610
I'm gonna try this protocol I and I have

1768
01:21:14,040 --> 01:21:11,619
to tell you that it worked

1769
01:21:16,859 --> 01:21:14,050
I quit coffee yeah that was the hardest

1770
01:21:19,589 --> 01:21:16,869
thing I ever did yeah quit I quit

1771
01:21:22,669 --> 01:21:19,599
drinking wine I started doing weight

1772
01:21:25,649 --> 01:21:22,679
exercise and a little bit of

1773
01:21:27,899 --> 01:21:25,659
carbohydrate captivity I went outside

1774
01:21:30,870 --> 01:21:27,909
like they said and got Sun you know

1775
01:21:32,879 --> 01:21:30,880
which I never really do and I started to

1776
01:21:34,260 --> 01:21:32,889
get sleep and I started to sleep in

1777
01:21:36,209 --> 01:21:34,270
which by the way when you're a mom of

1778
01:21:40,260 --> 01:21:36,219
five kids is almost impossible to do and

1779
01:21:41,760 --> 01:21:40,270
my productivity search award last year

1780
01:21:45,839 --> 01:21:41,770
my productivity just went through the

1781
01:21:47,819 --> 01:21:45,849
roof I stopped doing stuff it was just

1782
01:21:50,399 --> 01:21:47,829
like I couldn't stop doing stuff and I

1783
01:21:52,859 --> 01:21:50,409
just had just gobs of energy and I

1784
01:21:56,160 --> 01:21:52,869
thought whoa this really works and then

1785
01:21:58,830 --> 01:21:56,170
slowly I think was it when I got to

1786
01:22:02,459 --> 01:21:58,840
Italy that coffee was so delicious

1787
01:22:04,800 --> 01:22:02,469
I mean I was so off you were drinking in

1788
01:22:08,010 --> 01:22:04,810
nice seats coffee I was like oh I can't

1789
01:22:11,220 --> 01:22:08,020
not drink this so and even Tyler had to

1790
01:22:13,020 --> 01:22:11,230
drink the coffee he was like so

1791
01:22:15,149 --> 01:22:13,030
beautiful and wonderful in my life

1792
01:22:17,129 --> 01:22:15,159
so the Italian coffee

1793
01:22:21,959 --> 01:22:17,139
me back onto coffee but I pretty much

1794
01:22:24,330 --> 01:22:21,969
still do this protocol yeah you know it

1795
01:22:28,620 --> 01:22:24,340
almost sounds like parsley as anesthetic

1796
01:22:31,379 --> 01:22:28,630
you know a withdrawal from some of the

1797
01:22:37,259 --> 01:22:31,389
like I mean even less like electronics

1798
01:22:39,029 --> 01:22:37,269
and stuff like that and you know no

1799
01:22:40,649 --> 01:22:39,039
caffeine and no alcohol it's like a

1800
01:22:43,290 --> 01:22:40,659
clearing of the body a little bit you

1801
01:22:45,929 --> 01:22:43,300
know that sounds something almost from

1802
01:22:48,000 --> 01:22:45,939
like a spiritual tradition it really is

1803
01:22:50,580 --> 01:22:48,010
that's why I recognized it I recognized

1804
01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:50,590
it right away as it's almost like a

1805
01:22:56,520 --> 01:22:52,570
spiritual protocol basically like a monk

1806
01:22:58,830 --> 01:22:56,530
and you know nuns do this yeah another

1807
01:23:00,779 --> 01:22:58,840
thing that Tyler says to do which I know

1808
01:23:03,299 --> 01:23:00,789
is going to be very unpopular for all of

1809
01:23:06,569 --> 01:23:03,309
your audience as it is for me too is

1810
01:23:08,759 --> 01:23:06,579
basically he says that social media and

1811
01:23:11,250 --> 01:23:08,769
a lot of what we and and you know look

1812
01:23:13,919 --> 01:23:11,260
at on our screen creates a negative

1813
01:23:15,179 --> 01:23:13,929
response in your brain look it you know

1814
01:23:17,100 --> 01:23:15,189
we get it addicted to it through

1815
01:23:19,589 --> 01:23:17,110
dopamine and that that's actually

1816
01:23:21,540 --> 01:23:19,599
counter I mean you could go want it to

1817
01:23:24,029 --> 01:23:21,550
do your work but if you're on it all the

1818
01:23:26,489 --> 01:23:24,039
time it's gonna mess with your antenna

1819
01:23:29,549 --> 01:23:26,499
is what he says it's true because I took

1820
01:23:32,479 --> 01:23:29,559
the other day on my weekend I took two

1821
01:23:34,709 --> 01:23:32,489
days off from electronics like I just

1822
01:23:36,719 --> 01:23:34,719
disconnected and spent the whole time

1823
01:23:41,009 --> 01:23:36,729
with the family and I felt completely

1824
01:23:43,830 --> 01:23:41,019
different my mind was much clearer they

1825
01:23:46,129 --> 01:23:43,840
were less you know in like Buddhism and

1826
01:23:49,919 --> 01:23:46,139
meditation call them like less um

1827
01:23:54,029 --> 01:23:49,929
fragmenting of thoughts yes yes it

1828
01:23:58,379 --> 01:23:54,039
completely you know but getting back to

1829
01:24:00,359 --> 01:23:58,389
the Vatican did you guys in a sense fine

1830
01:24:05,129 --> 01:24:00,369
we were looking for there did you find

1831
01:24:07,169 --> 01:24:05,139
anything interesting or no yes we did we

1832
01:24:09,779 --> 01:24:07,179
actually are working on a project right

1833
01:24:14,729 --> 01:24:09,789
now where I'm the head I'm a head person

1834
01:24:16,379 --> 01:24:14,739
on this project where we did obtain the

1835
01:24:18,509 --> 01:24:16,389
which by the way I had to sign my life

1836
01:24:20,580 --> 01:24:18,519
over for these I obtained the

1837
01:24:25,290 --> 01:24:20,590
manuscripts of Saint Joseph of Cupertino

1838
01:24:27,659 --> 01:24:25,300
's canonization records which are there

1839
01:24:29,840 --> 01:24:27,669
they're probably there I don't know I

1840
01:24:35,130 --> 01:24:29,850
think

1841
01:24:37,230 --> 01:24:35,140
maybe 5,000 pages worth and yeah it's

1842
01:24:39,900 --> 01:24:37,240
really a lot of stuff and it's all like

1843
01:24:43,650 --> 01:24:39,910
written in Latin and 17th century

1844
01:24:45,810 --> 01:24:43,660
Italian so we're what we're doing is

1845
01:24:48,270 --> 01:24:45,820
we're doing a transcription of some of

1846
01:24:50,400 --> 01:24:48,280
the more interesting things that he did

1847
01:24:55,070 --> 01:24:50,410
and we'll probably do the same thing

1848
01:24:58,230 --> 01:24:55,080
with Mary of Agreda and we're also maybe

1849
01:24:59,970 --> 01:24:58,240
making some books on the Templars

1850
01:25:01,860 --> 01:24:59,980
because while we were there so some

1851
01:25:04,470 --> 01:25:01,870
stuff happened with them too I know it

1852
01:25:06,360 --> 01:25:04,480
sounds all da vinci code we didn't I'm

1853
01:25:10,730 --> 01:25:06,370
serious just happened that way

1854
01:25:12,840 --> 01:25:10,740
so so yeah we do and Tyler works with

1855
01:25:15,330 --> 01:25:12,850
some of the people who are helping

1856
01:25:19,140 --> 01:25:15,340
developed countries with their space

1857
01:25:20,670 --> 01:25:19,150
programs so so we made a lot of

1858
01:25:22,790 --> 01:25:20,680
connections there I mean you know a lot

1859
01:25:26,760 --> 01:25:22,800
of people good good people there and

1860
01:25:29,880 --> 01:25:26,770
we've been invited back so that's an

1861
01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:29,890
ongoing thing so what's the project you

1862
01:25:36,810 --> 01:25:34,090
said books and anything else yeah so I

1863
01:25:39,660 --> 01:25:36,820
mean right now the big project is

1864
01:25:41,340 --> 01:25:39,670
basically to do the transcriptions of

1865
01:25:44,430 --> 01:25:41,350
some of the documents for people who are

1866
01:25:46,410 --> 01:25:44,440
interested and what it looks like people

1867
01:25:50,100 --> 01:25:46,420
who have these biomarkers right from

1868
01:25:51,650 --> 01:25:50,110
history and and once we do that and by

1869
01:25:55,620 --> 01:25:51,660
the way this is all going to be on a

1870
01:25:57,330 --> 01:25:55,630
password on a site that's not open to

1871
01:25:58,890 --> 01:25:57,340
the public and so that was one of the

1872
01:26:01,140 --> 01:25:58,900
you know cuz the Vatican is not a

1873
01:26:03,810 --> 01:26:01,150
democracy so we've had some issues with

1874
01:26:06,690 --> 01:26:03,820
that some the funders are American and

1875
01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:06,700
the Vatican is not American right and so

1876
01:26:10,320 --> 01:26:08,650
I'm an American and so but I'm also

1877
01:26:12,420 --> 01:26:10,330
Catholic and I go there and so they

1878
01:26:14,310 --> 01:26:12,430
trust me and they say we'll allow you to

1879
01:26:15,900 --> 01:26:14,320
have this but it can't be public

1880
01:26:17,850 --> 01:26:15,910
knowledge and so I go back to the

1881
01:26:19,650 --> 01:26:17,860
funders and I say yeah we can have this

1882
01:26:22,320 --> 01:26:19,660
and we can transcribe it but it can only

1883
01:26:24,390 --> 01:26:22,330
be people who I allow in to see the

1884
01:26:27,900 --> 01:26:24,400
documents and they got really angry and

1885
01:26:29,580 --> 01:26:27,910
I said you know that sounds like

1886
01:26:31,500 --> 01:26:29,590
American entitlement here you know they

1887
01:26:33,000 --> 01:26:31,510
don't have to let us even look at these

1888
01:26:35,100 --> 01:26:33,010
documents these are that they're doing

1889
01:26:39,930 --> 01:26:35,110
you know so there's a lot of like

1890
01:26:42,450 --> 01:26:39,940
cultural what I would call tension that

1891
01:26:44,430 --> 01:26:42,460
we have you know like we just assumed

1892
01:26:46,410 --> 01:26:44,440
should be a certain way but things

1893
01:26:47,790 --> 01:26:46,420
aren't always the way that they are I

1894
01:26:49,500 --> 01:26:47,800
mean that's what I also found with my

1895
01:26:51,510 --> 01:26:49,510
academic friends you say wait a minute

1896
01:26:53,910 --> 01:26:51,520
these Invisibles they need to tell us

1897
01:26:55,620 --> 01:26:53,920
this stuff and invisibles said it's on a

1898
01:26:57,120 --> 01:26:55,630
need-to-know basis and you don't need to

1899
01:26:58,950 --> 01:26:57,130
know it I mean you know we're talking

1900
01:27:00,540 --> 01:26:58,960
about different cultures here and these

1901
01:27:02,820 --> 01:27:00,550
cultures have their own codes of ethics

1902
01:27:04,979 --> 01:27:02,830
and you know a lot of people demand to

1903
01:27:07,620 --> 01:27:04,989
know this or that and I was stuck in the

1904
01:27:10,650 --> 01:27:07,630
middle of a lot of this type of you know

1905
01:27:12,330 --> 01:27:10,660
a lot of these arguments basically and I

1906
01:27:15,360 --> 01:27:12,340
had to be kind of like a diplomat

1907
01:27:17,370 --> 01:27:15,370
to say well let's take a look at their

1908
01:27:18,610 --> 01:27:17,380
argument and why they say this and by

1909
01:27:24,320 --> 01:27:18,620
the way you're not going to know

1910
01:27:26,790 --> 01:27:24,330
[Laughter]

1911
01:27:28,830 --> 01:27:26,800
planning to put some of this out there

1912
01:27:31,110 --> 01:27:28,840
or that I mean main idea

1913
01:27:34,190 --> 01:27:31,120
stay invisible do this work you know and

1914
01:27:37,229 --> 01:27:34,200
you know as far as they can see

1915
01:27:39,090 --> 01:27:37,239
strangely enough it's out there I think

1916
01:27:40,800 --> 01:27:39,100
a lot of it is out there in the forms of

1917
01:27:43,350 --> 01:27:40,810
what they believe now we're talking

1918
01:27:46,500 --> 01:27:43,360
about what they believe they believe to

1919
01:27:49,260 --> 01:27:46,510
be technologies and then a lot of it a

1920
01:27:51,120 --> 01:27:49,270
lot of the content information is coming

1921
01:27:53,729 --> 01:27:51,130
out through I think media culture pop

1922
01:27:56,250 --> 01:27:53,739
culture it could very well be my book I

1923
01:27:58,530 --> 01:27:56,260
don't know like I honestly I don't know

1924
01:28:00,810 --> 01:27:58,540
why why I was privy to some information

1925
01:28:02,430 --> 01:28:00,820
and I put it in the book ok now you're

1926
01:28:05,430 --> 01:28:02,440
all gonna read it and be privy to it - I

1927
01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:05,440
honestly don't know why will I ever know

1928
01:28:10,290 --> 01:28:08,890
why I don't know so I mean I mean I'm

1929
01:28:18,660 --> 01:28:10,300
stuck in the same position that you are

1930
01:28:21,450 --> 01:28:18,670
all in I'm not invisible that's it's you

1931
01:28:23,520 --> 01:28:21,460
know just a fascinating thing everybody

1932
01:28:27,180 --> 01:28:23,530
wants to know you know how much do they

1933
01:28:29,820 --> 01:28:27,190
know compared to us in the outside world

1934
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:29,830
you know I does it seem like they really

1935
01:28:38,280 --> 01:28:33,610
have a handle on I can I can answer that

1936
01:28:41,940 --> 01:28:38,290
I can say that they are it's such a

1937
01:28:43,500 --> 01:28:41,950
compartmentalized situation that a lot

1938
01:28:46,320 --> 01:28:43,510
of them have no clue what the other

1939
01:28:48,600 --> 01:28:46,330
people are doing yeah that's as much as

1940
01:28:51,180 --> 01:28:48,610
I can say because it's you know some I

1941
01:28:52,530 --> 01:28:51,190
got kind of a med of you because I knew

1942
01:28:54,330 --> 01:28:52,540
so many of them and I knew what they

1943
01:28:56,220 --> 01:28:54,340
were doing and I was like wow if they

1944
01:28:58,590 --> 01:28:56,230
only knew what they were doing and you

1945
01:29:01,380 --> 01:28:58,600
they they are doing things that the

1946
01:29:03,330 --> 01:29:01,390
other people don't know and so and but

1947
01:29:05,419 --> 01:29:03,340
they can't they're trained this way from

1948
01:29:08,580 --> 01:29:05,429
a very young age too by the way and

1949
01:29:10,229 --> 01:29:08,590
sometimes couples are recruited and when

1950
01:29:13,740 --> 01:29:10,239
you get couples that get recruited into

1951
01:29:17,400 --> 01:29:13,750
it then you know they they have their

1952
01:29:18,990 --> 01:29:17,410
own special kind of code where they work

1953
01:29:21,959 --> 01:29:19,000
together I mean it's a really weird

1954
01:29:24,590 --> 01:29:21,969
culture that I don't want to be a part

1955
01:29:27,060 --> 01:29:24,600
of in any way I just wrote about it but

1956
01:29:31,470 --> 01:29:27,070
it's something that I honestly did not

1957
01:29:32,490 --> 01:29:31,480
know existed before this book where do

1958
01:29:35,340 --> 01:29:32,500
you think we're going to be with all

1959
01:29:38,250 --> 01:29:35,350
this in about a year's time I think

1960
01:29:40,080 --> 01:29:38,260
we're I think 2019 just like everybody

1961
01:29:42,090 --> 01:29:40,090
predicts is gonna be a wild ride for

1962
01:29:44,340 --> 01:29:42,100
people who are interested in this and

1963
01:29:47,280 --> 01:29:44,350
even people who are not I remember when

1964
01:29:49,530 --> 01:29:47,290
the Blumenthal and Kane article came out

1965
01:29:51,510 --> 01:29:49,540
last year I mean that came out like a

1966
01:29:54,060 --> 01:29:51,520
thunderbolt and then you know people

1967
01:29:56,910 --> 01:29:54,070
that I that were never really interested

1968
01:29:58,890 --> 01:29:56,920
in it's up in the topic were calling me

1969
01:30:00,540 --> 01:29:58,900
like people from Harvard how can we get

1970
01:30:02,760 --> 01:30:00,550
in on this can you know what can we do

1971
01:30:08,550 --> 01:30:02,770
and I was like it's a little too late

1972
01:30:12,450 --> 01:30:08,560
for you now you know just like last year

1973
01:30:13,950 --> 01:30:12,460
and now it's cool so yeah I think it's

1974
01:30:17,610 --> 01:30:13,960
just I honestly think it's gonna go

1975
01:30:19,860 --> 01:30:17,620
exponential here yeah I mean it looks

1976
01:30:21,959 --> 01:30:19,870
like it there's more and more coming out

1977
01:30:24,479 --> 01:30:21,969
and you know there's there's talk of

1978
01:30:27,360 --> 01:30:24,489
more stuff coming out you know at March

1979
01:30:30,689 --> 01:30:27,370
and there you have these different films

1980
01:30:33,320 --> 01:30:30,699
being done that's going to include you

1981
01:30:36,209 --> 01:30:33,330
know certain revelations of different

1982
01:30:39,870 --> 01:30:36,219
realities of the subject you know

1983
01:30:43,439 --> 01:30:39,880
material stuff and you know these videos

1984
01:30:45,150 --> 01:30:43,449
everybody's talking about and I think

1985
01:30:48,689 --> 01:30:45,160
you know it's almost been like a

1986
01:30:51,530 --> 01:30:48,699
cultural shock in the last year you know

1987
01:30:54,750 --> 01:30:51,540
even though our show just came along and

1988
01:30:56,669 --> 01:30:54,760
just see you know Danny Silva and

1989
01:30:59,160 --> 01:30:56,679
Twitter user Jay they they've come on

1990
01:31:01,200 --> 01:30:59,170
the scene that's really been drawing

1991
01:31:02,760 --> 01:31:01,210
people out like a beacon now I mean it's

1992
01:31:05,250 --> 01:31:02,770
like somebody turned the light on and

1993
01:31:06,930 --> 01:31:05,260
and everybody's going for it now it's

1994
01:31:09,959 --> 01:31:06,940
it's pretty much totally a dream I

1995
01:31:12,120 --> 01:31:09,969
totally agree and I like the people that

1996
01:31:15,080 --> 01:31:12,130
are here now because there's a whole

1997
01:31:17,250 --> 01:31:15,090
group of new young people who don't have

1998
01:31:19,350 --> 01:31:17,260
animosity you know like there's a lot of

1999
01:31:23,209 --> 01:31:19,360
animosity associated with kind of older

2000
01:31:26,609 --> 01:31:23,219
uff oh you know like the 1980s 1990s

2001
01:31:29,850 --> 01:31:26,619
ufology even the early 2000s and now it

2002
01:31:33,209 --> 01:31:29,860
seems like after you know 2010 it's

2003
01:31:34,620 --> 01:31:33,219
gotten really like friendly more

2004
01:31:37,439 --> 01:31:34,630
friendly you know people are more open

2005
01:31:39,989 --> 01:31:37,449
to hearing first there's there's less of

2006
01:31:42,359 --> 01:31:39,999
this stigma between you know let's study

2007
01:31:44,549 --> 01:31:42,369
nuts and bolts and let's study or let's

2008
01:31:47,279 --> 01:31:44,559
study the spiritual part of it but you

2009
01:31:48,719 --> 01:31:47,289
know those were completely at odds but

2010
01:31:51,209 --> 01:31:48,729
now they're not and people are much more

2011
01:31:53,569 --> 01:31:51,219
able to kind of talk about both sides of

2012
01:31:56,520 --> 01:31:53,579
it and not get angry at each other

2013
01:32:00,359 --> 01:31:56,530
yeah the consciousness aspect of it

2014
01:32:02,370 --> 01:32:00,369
which you know really seems to be at the

2015
01:32:04,020 --> 01:32:02,380
core of it used to be to any experience

2016
01:32:06,469 --> 01:32:04,030
or and there you can't really separate

2017
01:32:09,270 --> 01:32:06,479
that aspect of it from the phenomenon

2018
01:32:11,160 --> 01:32:09,280
exactly well the nice thing about the

2019
01:32:12,839 --> 01:32:11,170
experience or end of things it's not

2020
01:32:14,609 --> 01:32:12,849
difficult at all to find people to talk

2021
01:32:17,580 --> 01:32:14,619
about that we could get experiences on

2022
01:32:20,339 --> 01:32:17,590
here probably every week if we wanted to

2023
01:32:21,629 --> 01:32:20,349
just you just have to ask him basically

2024
01:32:26,700 --> 01:32:21,639
and they'll come on and tell you all

2025
01:32:30,989 --> 01:32:26,710
about it it's more of a more of an

2026
01:32:33,930 --> 01:32:30,999
egalitarian kind of thing yeah it seems

2027
01:32:35,310 --> 01:32:33,940
like everybody who's had an extra

2028
01:32:37,200 --> 01:32:35,320
everybody we know is that having

2029
01:32:39,569 --> 01:32:37,210
experienced plenty of them are willing

2030
01:32:42,120 --> 01:32:39,579
to talk about it openly so that's we're

2031
01:32:43,529 --> 01:32:42,130
okay with that yeah keeps us going gives

2032
01:32:46,620 --> 01:32:43,539
us stuff to talk about was there all

2033
01:32:48,989 --> 01:32:46,630
right with it I think it's great I make

2034
01:32:55,859 --> 01:32:48,999
the way in which I like the direction in

2035
01:32:57,419 --> 01:32:55,869
which it's going definitely yeah did you

2036
01:32:59,489 --> 01:32:57,429
have anything else for Frank all right

2037
01:33:01,799 --> 01:32:59,499
no I think yo you covered everything

2038
01:33:04,859 --> 01:33:01,809
really well you know I got the questions

2039
01:33:06,209 --> 01:33:04,869
answered I wanted to have answered there

2040
01:33:09,450 --> 01:33:06,219
anything that we didn't touch on that

2041
01:33:11,969 --> 01:33:09,460
you want to share with us dr. Zorka no

2042
01:33:13,799 --> 01:33:11,979
just my if you're interested now that

2043
01:33:15,359 --> 01:33:13,809
I'm not on social media you can go to my

2044
01:33:17,029 --> 01:33:15,369
website and I'm gonna start listing

2045
01:33:20,339 --> 01:33:17,039
stuff that I'm doing there like

2046
01:33:22,950 --> 01:33:20,349
interviews that come out things like

2047
01:33:23,890 --> 01:33:22,960
that developments and that's American

2048
01:33:27,640 --> 01:33:23,900
cosmic

2049
01:33:29,640 --> 01:33:27,650
and if anybody wants to you know get the

2050
01:33:31,720 --> 01:33:29,650
book now it's actually out on Kindle and

2051
01:33:33,760 --> 01:33:31,730
unfortunately I don't think it's coming

2052
01:33:37,479 --> 01:33:33,770
out and hard alright I guess it is in

2053
01:33:40,060 --> 01:33:37,489
hardcopy because James has one but yeah

2054
01:33:42,010 --> 01:33:40,070
so it's American cosmic calm and I hope

2055
01:33:45,850 --> 01:33:42,020
that they enjoy it and I hope they

2056
01:33:47,260 --> 01:33:45,860
enjoyed our car no I did yeah I know I'm

2057
01:33:49,780 --> 01:33:47,270
looking for trying I was hoping to get

2058
01:33:52,120 --> 01:33:49,790
the other hard copy myself but didn't

2059
01:33:54,189 --> 01:33:52,130
turn up but you know I'm gonna read it

2060
01:33:56,500 --> 01:33:54,199
as soon as I get a chance now when did

2061
01:33:59,169 --> 01:33:56,510
when do you know yet have a specific

2062
01:33:59,830 --> 01:33:59,179
date on when the hard copy is going to

2063
01:34:01,479 --> 01:33:59,840
be available

2064
01:34:05,109 --> 01:34:01,489
people like to order and get it right

2065
01:34:07,180 --> 01:34:05,119
away right so I think that what the

2066
01:34:09,010 --> 01:34:07,190
problem is is that it keeps getting the

2067
01:34:10,990 --> 01:34:09,020
warehouse keeps getting depleted so I

2068
01:34:15,899 --> 01:34:11,000
think James you do have a copy right

2069
01:34:18,669 --> 01:34:15,909
I do like Danny silver got a copy too

2070
01:34:22,030 --> 01:34:18,679
okay so people are getting the card

2071
01:34:23,919 --> 01:34:22,040
copies now okay I think yeah I think at

2072
01:34:25,629 --> 01:34:23,929
least the people because I know you know

2073
01:34:30,040 --> 01:34:25,639
both Danny and I ordered along like

2074
01:34:33,430 --> 01:34:30,050
months ago and isn't isn't coming out on

2075
01:34:40,689 --> 01:34:33,440
hard copy via Amazon and in the middle

2076
01:34:44,109 --> 01:34:40,699
of February as well yes I think so yeah

2077
01:34:46,839 --> 01:34:44,119
yeah that seems to be about it so if you

2078
01:34:48,640 --> 01:34:46,849
get it from Oxford it comes directly

2079
01:34:51,040 --> 01:34:48,650
from that warehouse and you might get it

2080
01:34:53,080 --> 01:34:51,050
sooner and I actually have a code that I

2081
01:34:55,689 --> 01:34:53,090
can cue to you after this show and if

2082
01:35:01,870 --> 01:34:55,699
you want to post it it's a 30% off code

2083
01:35:05,830 --> 01:35:01,880
oh okay yeah we know some premium for

2084
01:35:07,780 --> 01:35:05,840
our listeners yeah and I get the book in

2085
01:35:09,580 --> 01:35:07,790
like two days when I got an email saying

2086
01:35:10,209 --> 01:35:09,590
oh we're sending out your book I got in

2087
01:35:13,629 --> 01:35:10,219
like two days

2088
01:35:16,450 --> 01:35:13,639
wow that's great yeah I mean I'm on the

2089
01:35:18,209 --> 01:35:16,460
East Coast but you know Danny was in

2090
01:35:21,040 --> 01:35:18,219
Texas and saying he got it the same day

2091
01:35:27,459 --> 01:35:21,050
the warehouse is actually only an hour

2092
01:35:36,790 --> 01:35:27,469
for me it's in North Carolina so that's

2093
01:35:37,459 --> 01:35:36,800
so funny when you come to North Carolina

2094
01:35:40,040 --> 01:35:37,469
I'll come out

2095
01:35:44,390 --> 01:35:40,050
I know for you Oh oh that's a great idea

2096
01:35:46,910 --> 01:35:44,400
yeah all right so let's say we're gonna

2097
01:35:50,180 --> 01:35:46,920
wrap things up thanks again to dr. Diana

2098
01:35:53,239 --> 01:35:50,190
pessoa author of American cosmic get it

2099
01:35:55,069 --> 01:35:53,249
read it enjoy it and maybe pick up a few

2100
01:35:57,290 --> 01:35:55,079
tips on how to improve your own life by

2101
01:36:00,049 --> 01:35:57,300
following Tyler's health regimen there

2102
01:36:01,939 --> 01:36:00,059
and that give up that coffee and we're

2103
01:36:03,290 --> 01:36:01,949
gonna wrap things up I'm sure that we're

2104
01:36:06,140 --> 01:36:03,300
not going to do anything next Sunday

2105
01:36:09,229 --> 01:36:06,150
Super Bowl Sunday so but we've got some

2106
01:36:10,790 --> 01:36:09,239
other shows you know I think that's the

2107
01:36:17,660 --> 01:36:10,800
new religion not UFOs I think it's

2108
01:36:21,140 --> 01:36:17,670
football now I know we've got a na we've

2109
01:36:22,910 --> 01:36:21,150
got a ufos omni's in south america super

2110
01:36:24,830 --> 01:36:22,920
show coming up later this month we've

2111
01:36:26,989 --> 01:36:24,840
got some other things nothing pinned

2112
01:36:29,209 --> 01:36:26,999
down but after next Sunday we'll

2113
01:36:31,700 --> 01:36:29,219
definitely have some more shows James is

2114
01:36:32,899 --> 01:36:31,710
always a great pleasure you know we've

2115
01:36:35,000 --> 01:36:32,909
had a pretty good run here since

2116
01:36:37,339 --> 01:36:35,010
November with some fantastic shows so

2117
01:36:38,930 --> 01:36:37,349
let's keep that going and again dr.

2118
01:36:41,330 --> 01:36:38,940
Basilica thanks so much for joining us

2119
01:36:53,270 --> 01:36:41,340
it was fantastic it was great time

2120
01:36:55,250 --> 01:36:53,280
thanks guys absolutely great and have a

2121
01:36:57,319 --> 01:36:55,260
good week everybody and let's root for

2122
01:36:58,790 --> 01:36:57,329
those Rams against New England because